Khyrindor Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 This is my first topic, so don't judge. I was thinking about different powers within the Cosmere, and I noticed the similarity between Mistings and Surgebinders: they both have limited powers. What if there was a type of Surgebinder that had all of the powers, like a full Mistborn? Would you need to bond with each type of spren, or just speak all of the ideals? If this exists, perhaps Hoid is one. I have no proof of this, so far we only know of his worldhopping (and lightweaving?) powers. But if Hoid is trying to get all of the powers, note the Lerasium bead, this would add up. Thoughts? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) I was thinking about different powers within the Cosmere, and I noticed the similarity between Mistings and Surgebinders: they both have limited powers. What if there was a type of Surgebinder that had all of the powers, like a full Mistborn? Would you need to bond with each type of spren, or just speak all of the ideals? So far as we know, there's no way to bind more than one spren. I also think it would be difficult, as the Orders seem to be wildly different Ideal-wise. Imagine trying to be loving/caring for a homeless man who stole a load of bread while trying to be just/confident and turn him in to the authorities. That said, there's always Hemalurgy... though would you transfer the spren bond of other people, or transfer the powers themselves? A curious question. I find it doubtful that Hoid has access to Surgebinding, but apparently he has Feruchemy, so what do I do know? People have speculated that his sDNA allows him access to everything, and with his ability to create illusions, we'd never know if he was like an Elantrian and glowing. Welcome to the forums. Good first post. Edited February 18, 2014 by Moogle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) I doubt there's a full surgebinder. It would be just way too insanely powerful. A windrunner should already be stronger than a mistborn. Now multiply that by ten. Edit: Actually, on second thought, you might be able to do this by holding multiple honorblades. Edited February 18, 2014 by PorridgeBrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Actually, on second thought, you might be able to do this by holding multiple honorblades. I suspect that you can't bond multiple Honorblades. You can bond multiple Shardblades, but it seems like the Honorblades are so steeped with an identity that they would repel each other and prevent you from bonding more than one. I can't imagine how powerful someone with ten Surges would be... they'd be like TLR-lite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorWh0m Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I suspect that you can't bond multiple Honorblades. You can bond multiple Shardblades, but it seems like the Honorblades are so steeped with an identity that they would repel each other and prevent you from bonding more than one. I can't imagine how powerful someone with ten Surges would be... they'd be like TLR-lite. They'd probably be more powerful. They would have control over all the fundamental Surges, which are basically the building blocks of Roshar, and I'm sure there would be some absolutely devastating ways to combine them; like with the Metallic Arts, only more potent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Their offense would definitely be off the charts compared to TLR, but they'd lack the near total invincibility. They could pwn anyone very quick with soulcasting, even TLR, but they're more susceptible to swarming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorWh0m Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 True enough. There's also the issue of limited Stormlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Try this: http://coppermind.net/wiki/Hoid It's my theory that he has bits and pieces from all of the magics in the cosmere Edited February 19, 2014 by WEZ313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarma Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) I think Lift would be the ideal candidate for producing the shear amounts of stormlight that a Full surgebinder would need. I also believe that the Lerasium bead in her hands.... would be a very very scary thing. What happens when you burn food or stormlight in place of metals? How would her own unique power interact with those systems. For her part I think Lift is destined to transcend Roshar and become a worldhopper herself. At the very least Hoid would find her very interesting. Edited February 19, 2014 by Darkarma 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two McMillion Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Isn't there at least one theory that Voidbinding allows access to all ten surges at a terrible cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yeah, Lift with a Bendalloymind would be pretty crazy. Hemalurgy Yay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Their offense would definitely be off the charts compared to TLR, but they'd lack the near total invincibility. They could pwn anyone very quick with soulcasting, even TLR, but they're more susceptible to swarming. I have to be like the only person who wants to watch someone being Lashed with enough Stormlight to send them into the upper stratosphere. I should seek help... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Why just the stratosphere? Why not space, while you're at it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorWh0m Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Well, by the time they reach space, I don't think you could consider what's left as still being 'them'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Easy. Lash a GoPro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks guys, but all the spoilers won't show on my desktop, so you'll have to help me out a little more(I've already read all the books) With the Hemalurgy, could you steal Surgebinder powers? I haven't really studied Hemalurgy at all. And, while were at it, do you think there are any other similarities between pushing and pulling in Surgebinding? Also, since Mistborn has three different types of powers (physical, cognitive, spiritual?), do you think that it is a given with each of the Shards to give three powers? We know of two for sure on Roshar, but could the Shardblades/plates be the physical branch? lots of holes, I'll have to work on it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 The first two spoilers are on WoR. The third is just a link to the wiki article on Hoid, idk why it's spoilered at all. I doubt the pushing/pulling concept applies to any other shardworld. After all, it's only an artificial, manmade distinction on Scadrial too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks guys, but all the spoilers won't show on my desktop, so you'll have to help me out a little more(I've already read all the books) With the Hemalurgy, could you steal Surgebinder powers? I haven't really studied Hemalurgy at all. And, while were at it, do you think there are any other similarities between pushing and pulling in Surgebinding? Hemalurgy has to do with stealing things of the Spiritual realm and giving them to others. The Nahel Bond each Surgebinder has with their spren is a Spiritual connection, so it would be possible to steal it with Hemalurgy. It's also possible to steal Shardblades, since they're bonded to your spirit. The spren can choose to break the Nahel bond, but it's unknown if the spike would imprison the spren and give the bond permanently or not. The question is tied up in whether or not you could use a spike to steal Breath and use that Breath to Awaken. It might also be possible to just spike away one of the Surges the spren grants. We don't know the specifics of how Surges are used, but I would hazard a guess that you could steal a single Surge, though it would likely kill (or massively mutate) the spren attached to the Surgebinder you spiked, because they'd be losing half their power. It's possible you have to steal the whole bond, though. Also, since Mistborn has three different types of powers (physical, cognitive, spiritual?), do you think that it is a given with each of the Shards to give three powers? We know of two for sure on Roshar, but could the Shardblades/plates be the physical branch? I don't think I know what you mean here. Mistborn had three forms of Shards in the physical - metal, liquid, and mist - but what do you mean by saying they had three different 'types of powers'? Allomancy had four different types (Physical, Mental, Enhancement, Temporal) which in turn affected the Physical/Cognitive/Spiritual. If you're asking whether Surgebinding can affect all three, we don't know. All Surgebinding seems to be Spiritual, so far, though you could make a case for Pressure being Physical and Growth/Illumination being Cognitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoliday Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Pushing & Pulling are a Scadrial thing, but the 3 Realms are an feature of the entire Cosmere. So we have to keep in mind that everything from rocks to Surge-binding to the HoA prophecies has a Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual aspect. With that in mind I suppose it's possible for Hemalurgy to steal Surge-binding, assuming proper knowledge of bind points. The real question is, would the Nahel Spren be stolen? I theorize that prior to the formation of the Nahel Bond, Surgebinders could run rampant as they liked. My basis for this is the Nohadon vision in which Nohadon laments the problems caused by Alakavesh. I believe that this indicates that S spren were not necessarily apart of Surge-binding originally. So the question is, does Hemalurgy bid the spren? Or the Surge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Moogle: I meant Mistborn, Feruchemical, and Hemalurgy ( I don't know how to quote) so, since there are three in the Mistborn world, do you think there will be another on Roshar besides Surgebinding and Voidbinding? Edited February 20, 2014 by Khyrindor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 We know from WoB that there're 30 magic systems on Roshar, which can also be seen as 10, just accessed in three different ways. We also know that the third way, the one that isn't Void- or Surge- Binding, involves fabrials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 could you bind with a spren and then get an honorblade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Moogle: I meant Mistborn, Feruchemical, and Hemalurgy ( I don't know how to quote) so, since there are three in the Mistborn world, do you think there will be another on Roshar besides Surgebinding and Voidbinding? Ah, that makes sense. Yes, I think there will be three on Roshar, though that's because we have a WoB saying there are 30 systems of magic, or 10, or 3, depending on how you look at things. It seems apparent that there's three different ways of using the ten different Surges. As to figuring out the number of systems possible, Elantris has two Shards, but only one real magic system (which has local flavors, I grant). It seems that you can get a system of magic any time there's a mixture of Investiture on a planet - so, for example, with just Endowment on Nalthis, there's only the one system, but with something like Roshar, which has three Shards, we could have up to seven magic systems (because we have one for H, one for C, one for O, HC, HO, CO, and then HCO as possible mixtures of Investiture). However, we only know of there being three 'systems' of magic. We know the minimum and maximum amount of magic systems any world can have, but the actual amount cannot be figured out just from looking at the number of Shards on a planet, except in the case of there only being one Shard (in which case there's only ever going to be one system). Or at least, I think. There's WoBs supporting some of the above, in any case. I'll see if I can dig them up, but that was my interpretation of what Brandon has said. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebojello Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 It seems bonded spren may be shardblades. The lack of glowing (from Radiants) being because the spren has been cutoff or ripped from the bond. Honorblades seem to be given or constructed by Honor solely. Hence, spren in binding to humans ala the radiants and recreating the powers of the Heralds with Honorblades created the shardblades. When the recreance happened, the shardblades / plate could be considered fossilized, if you will, remnants of the bond. But we don't know for sure. Maybe WoR will clear this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 can you put down a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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