Death-rattle theory

[Tesh Any pronouns]

So, I, for one, have always been very interested in the prelude to tWoK. I think I know why now.

Recently, I have been copying down all of the death-rattles out of tWoK. (I know there is a list on the Coppermind, but I am still doing this). The first one I read that made me curious, was this one:

"Victory! We stand atop the mount! We scatter them before us! Their homes become our dens, their lands are now our farms! And they shall burn, as we once did, in a place that is hollow and forlorn."  -The Way of Kings, chapter 8

"And they shall burn, as we once did..." When I first read that, I immediately came up with a theory. The heralds talk through death-rattles.

Then I read this one:

"The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me!" -The Way of Kings, chapter 54

And I thought, well, this is obviously Talenel. So at lest one herald talks through death-rattles. Most of them are rather depressing, so it makes sense, considering their life-styles. Well, 3,000 years before. (This is a theory with very little information behind it, so I'm working with what I've got). 

 

Slightly off-topic, here are some other death-rattles that I have thought were very interesting. And my thoughts on some of them.

"Ten orders. We were loved, once. Why have you forsaken us, Almighty! Shard of my soul, where have you gone?" -The Way of Kings, chapter 2

"I'm dying, aren't I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shinning in a black sky." -The Way of Kings, chapter 4

"Three of sixteen ruled, but now the broken one reigns." -The Way of Kings, chapter 11

So, the shards of Adonalsium. I'm guessing 'the broken one' is referring to Odium.

(Ohhh, I like this one). "He must pick it up, the fallen title!" The Tower, the crown, the spear!" -The Way of Kings, chapter 53

So, this is before the chapter when Bridge Four goes back to save Dalinar and his army. The Tower, is obviously referring to The Tower, the crown, Dalinar, (or possibly Elokar, but more likely Dalinar) and the spear, Kaladin. I think the 'He must pick it up, the fallen title!' is referring to Kaladin and the Knights Radiant, as that is the chapter when he says the second ideal of the Windrunners. 

 

So, that's all I really have on the subject right now, but if I get any more information, I'll definitely post it.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Tesh

[Kered he/him]

5 hours ago, Tesh said:

 

"I'm dying, aren't I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shinning in a black sky." -The Way of Kings, chapter 4

 

Thanks for posting this because I just realized the "his head of lines" is referring to a Cyrptic, and the "distant sun, dark and cold, shinning in the black sky" is talking about the Shadesmar. The whole rattle looks like it's talking about spren and the cognitive realm of Roshar.  "Healer, why did you take my blood?" Could it be soulcasting? Maybe a Lightweaver, as a Cryptic is standing next to the Healer? But maybe not cus I don't think Lightweavers have been referred to as "healers" before. It's kinda obvious now, I wonder why I didn't catch it on a re-read lol. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Kered

[Tesh Any pronouns]

@Kered Hehe...

Yah, some of them don't support my theory, but I feel like I have just scratched the surface of something fairly important...

[Carbonationspren he/him]

1 hour ago, Kered said:

"Healer, why did you take my blood?" Could it be soulcasting? Maybe a Lightweaver, as a Cryptic is standing next to the Healer?

@Kered All the Death Rattle samples were taken in the secret part of the hospital in Kharbranth, in which case this wouldn't be an "authentic" part of the death rattle. This would be the subject waking up and noticing that there is a nurse (Silent Gatherer) by his bed draining his blood, then perhaps seeing into Shadesmar in the moment of transition (and seeing a Cryptic). 

Therefore, the significant part of this would only be the last part about Shadesmar, since the first part most likely just refers to the mode of the subject's death. 

[thejopen27 he/him]

On 10/5/2017 at 10:24 PM, Kered said:

Thanks for posting this because I just realized the "his head of lines" is referring to a Cyrptic, and the "distant sun, dark and cold, shinning in the black sky" is talking about the Shadesmar. The whole rattle looks like it's talking about spren and the cognitive realm of Roshar.  "Healer, why did you take my blood?" Could it be soulcasting? Maybe a Lightweaver, as a Cryptic is standing next to the Healer? But maybe not cus I don't think Lightweavers have been referred to as "healers" before. It's kinda obvious now, I wonder why I didn't catch it on a re-read lol. 

I don't think this one is a real death rattle. I think this one is actual, conscious last words. It was classified by the gatherers because they didn't understand it.

Edited October 8, 2017 by thejopen27

[Tesh Any pronouns]

1 minute ago, thejopen27 said:

I don't think this one is a real death rattle. I think this one is actual, conscious last words. It was classified by the gatherers because they didn't understand it.

Yah, that makes sense.

And it fits with my theory, too. 

I really feel like I've found something...

[Aleksiel]

Here's a WoB I find relevant:

Quote

QUESTION

He asked if Kel had been born on Roshar, and something similar happened to him, would he be able to communicate with the living via Death Rattle.

BRANDON SANDERSON

My understanding (of what I remember of what he paraphrased... Not a solid source) is that Brandon said it would be similar to a Rattle, but not the same.

 

 

Quote

GPMUSHU

Has the Thrill existed longer than the Death Rattles or have they both been occurring for about the same period of time?

BRANDON SANDERSON

The Thrill and the Death Rattles started around the same time, but the locations for the two fluctuate and have been since they appeared.

 

 

So I doubt it's the Heralds or anyone's Cognitive Shadow speaking through the dying. You could be on to something, but for now I find the in-world explanation satisfactory and I think even that death rattle seemingly befitting Taln will eventually make sense as a future event. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Aleksiel

[Tesh Any pronouns]

@Aleksiel Thanks!

[Rogueshar]

I noticed some of the same things during my latest reread of WoK. I don't think its one of the Heralds per-say speaking through the Death Rattles. But maybe something in the Cosmere is speaking through them, or maybe its a microphone for different things in the Rosharan system. I'm not sure.

[Carbonationspren he/him]

23 hours ago, Aleksiel said:

So I doubt it's the Heralds or anyone's Cognitive Shadow speaking through the dying. You could be on to something, but for now I find the in-world explanation satisfactory and I think even that death rattle seemingly befitting Taln will eventually make sense as a future event. 

I believe that the leading theory for the Thrill and Death Rattles is some sort of void-ish Godspren. In the WoR Interlude I-14, it mentions Moelach in association with the Death Rattles. Also, there is a quote in a chapter heading from the Diagram mentioning Moelach (probably a spren) in connection with the death rattles:

Quote

There is one you will watch. Though all of them have some relevance to precognition, Moelach is one of the most powerful in this regard. His touch seeps into a soul as it breaks apart from the body, creating manifestations powered by the spark of death itself. But no, this is a distraction. Deviation. Kingship. We must discuss the nature of kingship.

(emphasis mine). Coppermind link.

 

[Aleksiel]

1 minute ago, Carbonationspren said:

I believe that the leading theory for the Thrill and Death Rattles is some sort of void-ish Godspren. In the WoR Interlude I-14, it mentions Moelach in association with the Death Rattles. Also, there is a quote in a chapter heading from the Diagram mentioning Moelach (probably a spren) in connection with the death rattles:

(emphasis mine). Coppermind link.

 

Yes, that's the one I meant, sorry if it wasn't clear. It is as if both Odium and Vargo are gathering intelligence through the death rattles.

[Tesh Any pronouns]

3 hours ago, Carbonationspren said:

I believe that the leading theory for the Thrill and Death Rattles is some sort of void-ish Godspren. In the WoR Interlude I-14, it mentions Moelach in association with the Death Rattles. Also, there is a quote in a chapter heading from the Diagram mentioning Moelach (probably a spren) in connection with the death rattles:

(emphasis mine). Coppermind link.

 

Oh, wow. Thanks!

(I'm getting a lot more feedback than I suspected).

[Aleksiel]

What do you think - are death rattles glimpses into a possible or inevitable future? I didn't find a WoB that we'll see all death rattles happen, just that they would make a lot more sense in the first five SA books, so it makes me wonder if Roshar (and may be the Cosmere) is more predetermined than not. 

[Tesh Any pronouns]

1 hour ago, Aleksiel said:

What do you think - are death rattles glimpses into a possible or inevitable future? I didn't find a WoB that we'll see all death rattles happen, just that they would make a lot more sense in the first five SA books, so it makes me wonder if Roshar (and may be the Cosmere) is more predetermined than not. 

I think that page on the Coppermind is very relavent. We'll have to see what happens.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

On 10/10/2017 at 6:23 AM, Aleksiel said:

it makes me wonder if Roshar (and may be the Cosmere) is more predetermined than not. 

Well, there is this thing called Atium... (This is the SA Forum, so a namedrop is all it gets)

So in the Spiritual Realm, time and space mean little to nothing. One can see massive amounts of information in the form of connection. That information can be understood by the Shards, allowing them to see into the future.

Honor likened it to a shattering mirror, which is the best metaphor I can give. The immediate future is predetermined, and people can react to it if they can see it(shown by Atium. If two people can both see it, they get into a feedback loop of potential futures a la shattering mirror. There reaches a point where there are just too many variables and uncertainties that anything you "see" in your future-sight would be a possibility, rather than a guarantee. The further forward in time you peer, the worse it gets.

So to answer your question: .. sort of? Immediate future is decently predetermined, but far future is not.