Szeth can invest.

[Calderis he/him]

@Extesian shared a wonderful WoB with me on discord. Here it is.

Quote

BlackYeti

With most magic systems, you've said that you need some sort of gap in your soul for the Investiture to get in. On Nalthis, there's obviously a bit that they can give away. Is this how Vasher is able to get Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

So Vasher draws in Stormlight through the holes built in to his naturally occurring places in his spiritweb where breath is meant to attach.

By this logic, anyone who has undergone sufficient trauma to have snapped should be able to learn to invest on Roshar, which is in itself a revelation with staggering implications. 

For Szeth specifically though, he has been through far more than enough to have snapped. He also already knows how to breath in Stormlight. The only thing stopping him is that without the Honorblade, he doesn't believe he can.

Edit: People seem to think that this idea is far more speculative than it is. We've been told straight out, that Szeth can use the same method as Vasher to invest. This post was just to that method. 

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R.E.

Does Vasher have a different way of getting access to Stormlight than everyone else? Given that he has no spren, no honorblade and he isn't a squire?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. He can use Stormlight to stay alive, but it doesn't let him Surgebind.

R.E.

Could Szeth get access to this method?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes

R.E.

And use it to fuel Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes he could.

R.E.

Can you tell me what that method is?

Brandon Sanderson

*smiles*

The method being what it is why I speculate beyond Szeth... But Szeth is confirmed to be able to do this. I don't see why he'd be special. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Calderis

[Yata he/him]

The only obstacle Szeth has is believing he could.

But I think Nale could Simply tell him...by the way, that WoB Almost extension It's implication to the Heralds too

[Fakeout]

So if this applies to any person with sufficient damage to their Spiritweb, what would they gain from the Stormlight? I think without a bond of some sort to shape the usage of the Investiture, they wouldn't be able to use any specific Surges/powers but would gain the benefits of holding Stormlight, namely healing, strength, speed, and the urge to take action. 

[Pattern he/him]

Without a Nahel bond the Stormlight might just heal/close the gaps in the Spiritweb, like it was able to heal Kaladin's shardblade cut. Having access to Stormlight would be a one-time thing. With Vasher though, the gaps in the spirit web are supposed to be there, so they are not subject to Stormlight healing.

I would be careful to generalize a WoB about Vasher to all spiritually damaged individuals on Roshar.

[Fakeout]

47 minutes ago, Pattern said:

Without a Nahel bond the Stormlight might just heal/close the gaps in the Spiritweb, like it was able to heal Kaladin's shardblade cut. Having access to Stormlight would be a one-time thing. With Vasher though, the gaps in the spirit web are supposed to be there, so they are not subject to Stormlight healing.

I would be careful to generalize a WoB about Vasher to all spiritually damaged individuals on Roshar.

Good idea. 

There was a topic somewhere on here where someone theorized that for Szeth to gain powers/access to Stormlight he would need to bond Nightblood by unsheathing him and surviving, which is how Vasher gained the ability to hear Nightblood in his thoughts without holding the blade (if I'm remembering correctly). So maybe Seth could find someway to feed Nightblood with a fabrial to achieve the bond and gain whatever powers Nightblood would grant. Alternatively, he could draw it only in a moment when a Surgebinder attacks him, killing the Surgebinder in a single hit and sheathing it before it can begin eating Szeth's soul. Otherwise, I don't think Szeth should be able to access stormlight unless the OP is true. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Fakeout

[Yata he/him]

I believe that without a Nahel Bond (or other Spirit-Web coded powers) also if you could invest yourself you will not gain what we usually associate with "Stormlight's benefit".

To be more precise, I believe what we called "Stormlight's passive benefits" are not stormlight's properties but rather an Surgebinding's effect

[Velvet Thunder he/him]

Brandon and his cryptically short answers! Great stuff though.

I think it's kind of like engines and fuel.

Stormlight = Fuel.

Spren and the Bond = An engine.

A surgebinder has access to fuel, and an shaping of output in the bond (the engine) to allow them to perform certain abilities. It funnels the investiture in a certain way to be more 'useful' just as fuel is burned in a specific way inside a piece of machinery to produce another result beyond just an explosion. The explosions energy is funneled and shaped to produce motion through a complex make up of bits and bobs turning things and pushing things etc. (I'm not a mechanic, can you tell? ).

Someone who just has access to stormlight through holes in the web but no bond has a load of fuel, with no way of shaping it. So they just create an explosion of energy, I ASSUME is similar to increased speed, strength etc. that Kaladin has felt, and it will heal their own wounds. Otherwise they have no extra powers or such. Still pretty kick chull though, might lead into some Vasher fighting some surgebinders and actually doing quite well for himself matching their speed, strength, skill, etc. just missing surges.

Interesting

[Steeldancer he/him]

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Extesian shared a wonderful WoB with me on discord. Here it is.

So Vasher draws in Stormlight through the holes built in to his naturally occurring places in his spiritweb where breath is meant to attach.

By this logic, anyone who has undergone sufficient trauma to have snapped should be able to learn to invest on Roshar, which is in itself a revelation with staggering implications. 

For Szeth specifically though, he has been through far more than enough to have snapped. He also already knows how to breath in Stormlight. The only thing stopping him is that without the Honorblade, he doesn't believe he can. 

I think I predicted this somewhere. In my realmatics theory, I think it was. 

[Calderis he/him]

5 hours ago, Pattern said:

Without a Nahel bond the Stormlight might just heal/close the gaps in the Spiritweb, like it was able to heal Kaladin's shardblade cut. Having access to Stormlight would be a one-time thing. With Vasher though, the gaps in the spirit web are supposed to be there, so they are not subject to Stormlight healing.

I would be careful to generalize a WoB about Vasher to all spiritually damaged individuals on Roshar.

I seriously doubt that. Szeth was right that he couldn't heal his soul with Stormlight with an Honorblade.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

A full-blown Radiant can heal almost anything (cut from a Shardblade included) because of the way the magic works--their soul is literally bonded to investiture, and it suffuses them in such a way that even the soul is very resilient to damage.

Honorblades are what you'd consider a "prototype" for what eventually happened with Shardblades. An Honorblade can be used by anyone, without need for oaths, which makes them very dangerous--but since the bond isn't as deep, they are far less efficient. They use more stormlight, for example, and can't heal to the extent that a Radiant can.

So the difference is not in the device that did the damage, but in the method using to heal. Over the course of the first two book, the reader should be able to subtly pick out differences from what Szeth says is possible(in more than just healing) and what Kaladin experiences.

I don't think that they'd be able to hold much, or for long. Without a bond, the effects would be weaker, but investiture doesn't do nothing. Slight healing/speed/strength is better than nothing. 

[Aleksiel]

Hundreds of thousands of people have been broken spiritually since the Recreance, yet we haven't been introduced to stories about people investing except for surgebinders and holders of Honorblades.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Aleksiel

[Calderis he/him]

7 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

Hundreds of thousands of people have been broken spiritually since the Recreance, yet we haven't been introduced to stories about people investing except for surgebinders and holders of Honorblades.

And even surgebinders, who have a bond pushing them towards investing can only pull tiny amounts until they learn how, and they do have to learn. 

Kaladin spent days trying to figure it out when he already knew that he could. 

Without knowing that it's possible, no one has any reason to try. 

[Aleksiel]

Just now, Calderis said:

And even surgebinders, who have a bond pushing them towards investing can only pull tiny amounts until they learn how, and they do have to learn. 

Kaladin spent days trying to figure it out when he already knew that he could. 

Without knowing that it's possible, no one has any reason to try. 

Surgebibders stumble into it, they don't even know what they do, so I don't see why non-surgebinders would need to actively try. I'm skeptical because we haven't heard any stories about the Almighty mysteriously curing people and the like that you could expect if it was possible.

The only thing that comes close is how wind spren could allegedly catch someone falling, but that's not conclusive. It could be explained with people unknowingly inhaling enough stormlight to survive then saying it was the spren and it could be just folklore. If investing was possible for non-surgebinders, it should have been experienced by countless people from the day humanity came to Roshar until present day, thus it would have created much more than a tale or two. It's something it would be reasonably to expect to still happen once in a while, yet I can't say we've learned about any notable myths or rumors.

[Calderis he/him]

@Aleksiel I disagree. Without the bond, I don't think it's something possible instinctually. 

Edit: added some clarifying thoughts and a WoB to the OP.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Calderis

[Aleksiel]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Aleksiel I disagree. Without the bond, I don't think it's something possible instinctually. 

Edit: added some clarifying thoughts and a WoB to the OP.

Thanks for the clarification. We know of at least one group that tried purposely. The Envisagers knew a little about surgebinding, granted their approach was terrible. Teft never mentions being told of something like what you suggest and Lopen was trying to imitate Kal, thus  I doubt no one is thousands of years has ever tried to use stormlight while being spiritually broken. I remain of the opinion if it was possible, it would have been done already leaving significant folklore and legends, however I admit I can't offer an alternative explanation of the WoB about Szeth.

[Calderis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

Thanks for the clarification. We know of at least one group that tried purposely. The Envisagers knew a little about surgebinding, granted their approach was terrible. Teft never mentions being told of something like what you suggest and Lopen was trying to imitate Kal, thus  I doubt no one is thousands of years has ever tried to use stormlight while being spiritually broken. I remain of the opinion if it was possible, it would have been done already leaving significant folklore and legends, however I admit I can't offer an alternative explanation of the WoB about Szeth.

Teft says that they put themselves in horrific situations hoping their powers would manifest naturally. 

He also seemed aware of the fact that they would take in Stormlight, but he had nothing to offer Kaladin as to how they would take in Stormlight.

I have no issue in agreeing to disagree, I just think that if it has to be taught, the Envisagers were going about it in completely the wrong way. 

[Aleksiel]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Teft says that they put themselves in horrific situations hoping their powers would manifest naturally. 

He also seemed aware of the fact that they would take in Stormlight, but he had nothing to offer Kaladin as to how they would take in Stormlight.

I have no issue in agreeing to disagree, I just think that if it has to be taught, the Envisagers were going about it in completely the wrong way. 

I agree about the Envisagers, I wanted to just use them of an example that there are people actively trying to invest. It will be interesting to see how Szeth will manage it.

[Nymeros]

I read that he could potentially invest himself with stormlight, not that he absolutely can......which was only natural since Nale gave him Nightblood. Nale isnt a fool as far as im aware.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Nymeros