rjl Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 Reading back over the prologue it stands out to me that Gavilar's actions imply something happening that we don't yet understand. Quote “Unite them. I need a threat. Only danger will unite them.” Gavliar wants the Parshmen awakened to become a threat in order to unite the people, why would he want this? Dalinar's story seems to push us to think that the people need to unite to face the Parshemen who are no voidbringers, however Gavilar's comments make it sound like there is some other threat they need to unite against and the Parshmen threat is a useful warm up of some kind; was he mad/mislead/not understanding or could he be right? Are the problems that Dalinar is now facing just the warm up? I note also that if the Parshmen are the main threat the idea of a mid-series timeskip seems very odd - so the fact that we know there will be a gap after book 5 lends itself to this idea.
SpeakoftheDeval Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 IIRC Gavilar was secretly a Son of Honor; one of Roshar's secret societies, that wants to trigger a desolation to draw back the Heralds and unite mankind. The way I understand the plan for this desolation, the Parshmen becoming voidbringers is just the beginning, with future possible things being related to void-greatshells or void-surges given to humans
lastofus Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 3 hours ago, rjl said: Reading back over the prologue it stands out to me that Gavilar's actions imply something happening that we don't yet understand. Gavliar wants the Parshmen awakened to become a threat in order to unite the people, why would he want this? Dalinar's story seems to push us to think that the people need to unite to face the Parshemen who are no voidbringers, however Gavilar's comments make it sound like there is some other threat they need to unite against and the Parshmen threat is a useful warm up of some kind; was he mad/mislead/not understanding or could he be right? Are the problems that Dalinar is now facing just the warm up? I note also that if the Parshmen are the main threat the idea of a mid-series timeskip seems very odd - so the fact that we know there will be a gap after book 5 lends itself to this idea. Taravangian spoke of the vision Gavilar saw. It's fitting to say that Stormfather "Chose" the most powerful military figure in Roshar and gave him Honor's messages. Gavilar interpreted them as a message that would lead to Heralds being brought back. He was a devotee of Vorin Church. This is where Tavanast (Honor) failed, he couldn't foresee the future, and actually was handed the Everstorm to Odium. In predicting the coming of Everstorm, he allowed it happen through Gavilar. After his death, Stormfather sent the visions to the newest powerful military figure which was Dalinar. Let's add up: Gavilar saw the vision that we saw thorough Dalinar, right? He found Parshendi, being a smart guy he put 2+2 together. He was the first one to deduce that. And from what we saw, it took Jasnah years and many books to reach to the same conclusion. He thought the last desolation needs to happen, because it will bring the Heralds and with them bring back the Church's power. He, somehow, found those black gems. Deduced that they captured a spren and made Parshmen docile. He confronted Ashonai, handed her "one" of the gems. (The other was given to Szeth later on). That gem is probably the source of Venli's research for new forms. Got murdered. The war broke out... Six years later, Everstorm happened. Odium is bad in itself, from what Hoid and the other mysterious guy (a dragon?) said in their mails, he's the most dangerous entity alive right now. I think (am pretty sure) that the time-skip is needed because each desolation takes a long time to finish. Previous ones destroyed 90% of the populations, and this new one which will never end (Everstorm) will go on and on and on until Odium decides to accept to proxy the result to a duel between his champion and someone chosen by KR. On the other hand, maybe this will be shown in the 5th book but Odium, after losing the challenge, won't accept it and they need to kill him too.
Hischier Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 I think we know what he was trying to achieve, I just don't buy what we've been shown as far as motivations. We're missing some big pieces of the puzzle because Gavilar's actions don't make any sense if he's receiving the same visions as Dalinar. And we know he (and the Sons of Honor) has way more information than he should. Once we find out where he got the orb from I think we'll understand his actions more.
Valhalla Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 I'm really curious about why if Gavilar was actually full on with the Sons of Honor he would suspect Restares as one of the people who might be responsible for his assassination. It's possible he was using them and their information for his own gain. I guess it's also possible he suspected Restares of being some kind of double agent, but those two were supposed to be on the same team. I just think it is strange it would be one of the first names he throws out if the two were actually working towards the same goal. I hope we get more info about Restares in Oathbringer, because he keeps being mentioned by powerful people and we know very little about him at this point. 1
Siaun Sanche she/her Posted September 23, 2017 Posted September 23, 2017 36 minutes ago, Valhalla said: I'm really curious about why if Gavilar was actually full on with the Sons of Honor he would suspect Restares as one of the people who might be responsible for his assassination. It's possible he was using them and their information for his own gain. I guess it's also possible he suspected Restares of being some kind of double agent, but those two were supposed to be on the same team. I just think it is strange it would be one of the first names he throws out if the two were actually working towards the same goal. I hope we get more info about Restares in Oathbringer, because he keeps being mentioned by powerful people and we know very little about him at this point. I think Gavilar was a sincere Son of Honor because there's no reason why, were he pretending, he would have told Eshonai about the scheme. Once the Parshendi know that this is the scheme, then it's very easy to imagine a thousand ways why things could have gotten out of hand. The Parshendi may want to get on board, they may mention the scheme to the wrong person, they may get so incensed at his mad idea that they want to kill him, etc., etc. That's a crazy risk to take if he's just playing a part.
TheDarkDesperado he/him Posted September 24, 2017 Posted September 24, 2017 20 hours ago, Harry the Heir said: I think Gavilar was a sincere Son of Honor because there's no reason why, were he pretending, he would have told Eshonai about the scheme. Once the Parshendi know that this is the scheme, then it's very easy to imagine a thousand ways why things could have gotten out of hand. The Parshendi may want to get on board, they may mention the scheme to the wrong person, they may get so incensed at his mad idea that they want to kill him, etc., etc. That's a crazy risk to take if he's just playing a part. Agreed, even though he was completely wrong about their reaction it's hard to buy him doing that for a front. A possible reason he might have suspected Restares of the assassination despite being on the same team was that probably wasn't supposed to give The Parshendi the orb and/or tell them about the plan, I find it likely as that seems a huge gamble to take. I think he was genuine but the way he went about it raises some questions.
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