[OB] Where is the Honorblade?

[ThurgreatMarshall]

From Chapter 12, it would appear that Dalinar has it, but doesn't want to give it to anyone yet.

 

Quote

A troubling problem, but one that Dalinar thought he might have an answer to. There was a weapon that he’d decided to keep hidden for now. It might work as well as a Radiant’s Shardblade in opening the Oathgates— and might let someone reach Thaylen City by flight.

 

[redbishop]

Dalinar has it hidden.  Where would you hide an Honorblade?  You could either stash it somewhere, hide it yourself, or give it to someone to hide.

Dalinar may have it.

Quote

Silence. It stretched so long that Dalinar found himself grinding his teeth, itching to summon a Shardblade and dismiss it, over and over, as had been his habit as a youth. He’d picked it up from his brother.

It doesn't say he couldn't summon one, just that he was itching to do so.

He may have given it to someone else for safekeeping - that would explain the uncertainty in @Beltway2A's quote.

Of course, Szeth mentioned that the stone shamans would come to collect the blade once he died.  I suspect that will happen in this book.  If so, my guess is that someone less-invincible (such as, perhaps, Navani) will have it.

[+robardin he/him]

Just now, redbishop said:

Szeth mentioned that the stone shamans would come to collect the blade once he died.  I suspect that will happen in this book.  

Huh. You know, I totally forgot about that detail.

I wonder what the Stone Shamans are capable of. It's not likely that an Honorblade would just be left tossed in a planter to avoid being incriminating evidence. So "fetching" the Honorblade, especially the Windrunner one (which as we have seen, grants among the most terrifyingly effective combat useable Surges), from whoever probably picked it up, would be a pretty tough task.

[Stark he/him]

On 9/17/2017 at 1:20 AM, Yata said:

The Honorblades are tools to mechanically access Surgebinding.

I love that you phrased it as mechanical access, especially seeing as Nightblood has been described as an artificial spren.  It makes me feel that Nightblood is something between Spren and Honorblade.  Simultaneously more and less than either.

[redbishop]

14 minutes ago, robardin said:

So "fetching" the Honorblade, especially the Windrunner one (which as we have seen, grants among the most terrifyingly effective combat useable Surges), from whoever probably picked it up, would be a pretty tough task.

Perhaps, perhaps not.  Intent is a feature, and if one did not know one was holding Jezrien's blade, one would not know they could use the Lashings.

[+robardin he/him]

3 minutes ago, redbishop said:

Perhaps, perhaps not.  Intent is a feature, and if one did not know one was holding Jezrien's blade, one would not know they could use the Lashings.

True, but unless Szeth died of natural causes, it seems likely that whoever caused Szeth to die would have seen it in action. (Which is in fact the case here.)

[Salkara]

46 minutes ago, robardin said:

So "fetching" the Honorblade, especially the Windrunner one (which as we have seen, grants among the most terrifyingly effective combat useable Surges), from whoever probably picked it up, would be a pretty tough task.

The Shin seem to have knowledge that others do not, so I'll assume they know enough to do the following:

1. Use a larkin to remove Stormlight from whoever has Jezrien's Blade.
2. Defend themselves with aluminum (soulcast, of course) to negate the Honorblade's ability to cut through material.

If the Shin know the above two points, retrieving the Honorblade wouldn't be too difficult.

[Calderis he/him]

The Shin have every Honorblade except for the Windrunner, Skybreaker, and Stoneward blades. They've had them for centuries, and they know how to use them. 

When they come for the blades, they'll come in force. Szeth learned his proficiency with that blade somewhere. 

[Mulk he/him]

I had an odd thought about the Honorblades.

We don't know much at all about their history.  We know that Taln's blade was missing when the Heralds congregated after Aharietam almost five thousand years ago.  Presumably his blade is still bound to him, though I'm not clear at all whether it is the one he showed up to Kholinar bearing - I rather think it was not but that's irrelevant to where I'm going with this.

Were the Honorblades coded to the Heralds by Honor back when he first made and gave them out?  What I mean is, unless all ten respawn from Damnation to the spot they left their swords at (which could be true or could not be - we have no written word that I am aware of at this point), even if we assume that no one could possibly stumble across them and take them in the intervening years, you would think they have to have some way to retrieve their blades that doesn't involve roaming the entirety of Roshar to find them.  Syl makes it seem like their powers are dependent on their blade, which means a bladeless Herald is just a really long-lived and experienced human with no Radiant powers.  Is it not therefore likely that the Heralds can summon their specific blades back to themselves regardless of who holds them, that it is matched to their sDNA?  That would seem to be the case to me.  So, whenever the Windrunner leader comes out of hiding and/or accepts the truth of the matter, I won't be surprised to find he has the Windrunner blade already or that the windrunner blade might possibly vanish out of Dalinar's (or whoever's) keeping.

[Yata he/him]

3 hours ago, Stark said:

I love that you phrased it as mechanical access, especially seeing as Nightblood has been described as an artificial spren.  It makes me feel that Nightblood is something between Spren and Honorblade.  Simultaneously more and less than either.

Actually I don't see Nightblood as nothing like mechanical, regardless his origin Nightblood is a Sapient Splinter as every other Spren is.
It's hard to define what is a "mechanical way" in the Cosmere but I assume it would require a not magic user using a not living tool to performe magic.

Mistborn Era 2 spoiler:

Quote

Like the Metallic Arts with Medallions are

But I see where you want to point

[+robardin he/him]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

The Shin have every Honorblade except for the Windrunner, Skybreaker, and Stoneward blades. They've had them for centuries, and they know how to use them. 

When they come for the blades, they'll come in force. Szeth learned his proficiency with that blade somewhere. 

But those who pick up and use swords become the lowest of the low in Shin society. Unless the Stone Shamans are an exception, which they might well be, at least when on a Mission from God.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Calamity spoiler:

Spoiler

Dalinar obviously hides the Honorblade in the potato salad.

 

[CaptainRyan he/him]

2 hours ago, Mulk said:

What I mean is, unless all ten respawn from Damnation to the spot they left their swords at (which could be true or could not be - we have no written word that I am aware of at this point), even if we assume that no one could possibly stumble across them and take them in the intervening years, you would think they have to have some way to retrieve their blades that doesn't involve roaming the entirety of Roshar to find them.

As I understand it, the Heralds kept their blades with them until the prologue of the Way of Kings when they abandoned their oaths and their blades. Which means that  when the Heralds "respawned" during previous Desolations their blades were, I assume, already with them.

[Calderis he/him]

1 hour ago, CaptainRyan said:

As I understand it, the Heralds kept their blades with them until the prologue of the Way of Kings when they abandoned their oaths and their blades. Which means that  when the Heralds "respawned" during previous Desolations their blades were, I assume, already with them.

Truth. This is why the stone shamans only had 7 blades. 

Szeth had one, Nale reclaimed his, and Taln's was with Taln. 

[17th Splinter he/him]

I think that either no one is using it, or Dalinar has it. An Honorblade  would be great for a radient with no shards

[Guest]

Now Elhokar is going to Kholinar with Kaladin, I am convinced he it getting the Honorblade.

[Yata he/him]

2 hours ago, maxal said:

Now Elhokar is going to Kholinar with Kaladin, I am convinced he it getting the Honorblade.

The only problem here, is that I can't see the sense of this.

Waiting Kal ti return to Urithuru to start a new Mission for his powers and only at this point gave the Honorblade to Elhokar is a inefficient Plan.

They could start the Mission now, with Elhokar as powers' source (Or everyone else to be honest).

If the Bridge 4 has some familiarity with the Windrunner's Surges...It could be Better to gave them the Honorblade.

[mariapapadia she/her]

7 hours ago, maxal said:

Now Elhokar is going to Kholinar with Kaladin, I am convinced he it getting the Honorblade.

 

4 hours ago, Yata said:

The only problem here, is that I can't see the sense of this.

Waiting Kal ti return to Urithuru to start a new Mission for his powers and only at this point gave the Honorblade to Elhokar is a inefficient Plan.

They could start the Mission now, with Elhokar as powers' source (Or everyone else to be honest).

If the Bridge 4 has some familiarity with the Windrunner's Surges...It could be Better to gave them the Honorblade.

I agree it still doesn't make sense to give the blade to Elhokar. Granted, he proved himself to be more mature and selfaware than I would've given him credit for, but he still has a lot more growing to do. Especially now that he at least appears to accept Dalinar as the ruler, Dalinar has no reason to try and comfort him for taking the lead. 

Quote

A troubling problem, but one that Dalinar thought he might have an answer to. There was a weapon that he’d decided to keep hidden for now. It might work as well as a Radiant’s Shardblade in opening the Oathgates— and might let someone reach Thaylen City by flight.

I think this shows that Dalinar is more aware of what role the Blade could play. I'm not sure Elhokar is going with Kaladin yet though.. He wants to, but how will he get out of Urithiru? The only way that I see that happening is if he would have the blade and the Windrunner's powers. If that is the case, seems pretty pointless to send 2 people with the same abilities in the same place, when one could easily go to another city and try open one of the other gates. 

I'm not saying that Elhokar couldn't get the Blade, but if he does it makes more sense for him to go on a mission of his own which I am not sure he's ready for yet ( even he doesn't really think so ). 

[Yata he/him]

1 hour ago, mariapapadia said:

I agree it still doesn't make sense to give the blade to Elhokar. Granted, he proved himself to be more mature and selfaware than I would've given him credit for, but he still has a lot more growing to do. Especially now that he at least appears to accept Dalinar as the ruler, Dalinar has no reason to try and comfort him for taking the lead. 

Wait I believe there is a sense in giving the Blade to Elhokar and maybe also in sending him to the capital.

I don't see the sense of both waiting Kal to Start AND giving the Honorblade to Elhokar. I am more on wait Kal OR giving the Blade to someone else to send to the capital (maybe Elhokar maybe not).

By the way Elhokar could be sent to the capital with one of his cousins (I believe Renarin will be more fit to the role) in mission. Elhokar could provide fast travel methods and Renarin a support for both infiltration (but I don't believe he is ready to this) or for logistic support to the capital itself (in the middle of a civil war, someone who could heal people is priceless).

The contro to this is that without the Honorblade and Renarin, Urithuru is again stuck with Shallan as only gatekeeper...a troublesome situation.

[mariapapadia she/her]

1 hour ago, Yata said:

Wait I believe there is a sense in giving the Blade to Elhokar and maybe also in sending him to the capital.

I don't see the sense of both waiting Kal to Start AND giving the Honorblade to Elhokar. I am more on wait Kal OR giving the Blade to someone else to send to the capital (maybe Elhokar maybe not).

By the way Elhokar could be sent to the capital with one of his cousins (I believe Renarin will be more fit to the role) in mission. Elhokar could provide fast travel methods and Renarin a support for both infiltration (but I don't believe he is ready to this) or for logistic support to the capital itself (in the middle of a civil war, someone who could heal people is priceless).

The contro to this is that without the Honorblade and Renarin, Urithuru is again stuck with Shallan as only gatekeeper...a troublesome situation.

hmmm..Ok! I get what you are saying. 

I just didn't see the logic in directing all their resources into one direction( that being opening the gate in Kholinar). I suppose it would have more chances to work, but for me it seemed Dalinar wasn't considering Kholinar a priority before Elhokar insisting that he wants to go there. I guess Kaladin would need someone more familiar with the city and how things work around there. 

Maybe I'm over analysing things at this point 

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

Now I can't get the idea of Stone Shamans, Szeth and Dalinar clashing during the Sanderson Avalanche of OB out of my head .

[Calderis he/him]

1 hour ago, mariapapadia said:

Maybe I'm over analysing things at this point 

If you are on this site, having these discussions, then there's no need for a maybe in that sentence. 

[mariapapadia she/her]

47 minutes ago, Calderis said:

If you are on this site, having these discussions, then there's no need for a maybe in that sentence. 

Hahah! Thank you, this made me feel better. I'm always worried not to come across too stubborn or that I am beating a dead horse 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

On 9/19/2017 at 2:13 PM, robardin said:

But those who pick up and use swords become the lowest of the low in Shin society. Unless the Stone Shamans are an exception, which they might well be, at least when on a Mission from God.

They are an exception. Remember what Szeth says that prompts Nalan giving him Nightblood?

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"My people have the other Honorblades, and have kept them safe for millennia. If I am to bring judgement to them, I will face enemies with Shards and with power."

He knows that they have them, he knows they will use them, and he knows they know how to use them.

Edited September 21, 2017 by The One Who Connects
excess white lines

[knightedbishop he/him]

I think Dalinar has kept the honorblade for himself. He has a tendency of hording power and authority. He knows he’s not getting a blade via the Stormfather. I like he idea of him giving the blade to Navani, but it seems unlikely. Dalinar seems a chauvinist/traditionalist who doesn’t see woman as fighters. I also don’t see subtlety as his strong suit, which is why he’s sucking so hard at politics (along with hording power rather than delegating). He’s already hidden having a blade once. Why not do it again.