Allomantic musings

[Steeldancer he/him]

So I've been rereading mistborn era 2, and while I've been doing so, I've had several thoughts. 

First, how is it determined what metal you burn/store in? I have several explanations to put forward. 

1. It's random. The issue with this is at multiple times it is mentioned that various mistings/ferrings are less common then others. 

2. It's inherited. I very much doubt this theory, because it would have been noticed. Wax isn't a coinshot because he's descended from Breeze, who was a soother. If this were true, he would probably be a rioter like Alliandre, or a soother like breeze. 

3. It has something to do with a function of the spirit web. Whether its a certain strength of spirit web that will create a different type, or the type of person they are when they snap (which is also weird), this is the theory im going with. Something about the spirit web determines what power you get. 

Another thought: I think the reason allomantic genes disrupted feruchemical genes is because allomancy requires a greater amount of preservation, while I believe being a feruchemist involves having more of a balance. Thus, a full feruchemist with one allomantic power would never happen, because there would be too much preservation. 

Lerasium is the "you can burn anything" metal. Just like you can spike anything with atium, store anything with harmonium... you should be able to create any effect by burning lerasium. That's so OP. 

I am also a fan of the "lerasium atium alloy makes you a feruchemist" theory. 

I also believe that allomantic compounding is simpler than most people in here believe, but that was already discussed in the other thread, and we don't need to hash it out again here. 

I was also thinking upon how much it would stink to be an aluminum compounder. Really, talk about useless. At least duralumin compounder could boost their compounded feruchemy. But aluminum. 

[Yata he/him]

9 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

First, how is it determined what metal you burn/store in? I have several explanations to put forward. 

1. It's random. The issue with this is at multiple times it is mentioned that various mistings/ferrings are less common then others. 

2. It's inherited. I very much doubt this theory, because it would have been noticed. Wax isn't a coinshot because he's descended from Breeze, who was a soother. If this were true, he would probably be a rioter like Alliandre, or a soother like breeze. 

3. It has something to do with a function of the spirit web. Whether its a certain strength of spirit web that will create a different type, or the type of person they are when they snap (which is also weird), this is the theory im going with. Something about the spirit web determines what power you get. 

It's the 3 anni expression of your Spirit web.  you could Imagine It as an hashcode if you know a Little the computer science .

9 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

Lerasium is the "you can burn anything" metal. Just like you can spike anything with atium, store anything with harmonium... you should be able to create any effect by burning lerasium. That's so OP. 

Allomantic Lerasium's effect is to gave Allomancy so if you burn a Lerasium you Will get Mistborn's Power. If you then burn another Lerasium bead your power Will be boosted.

9 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

I am also a fan of the "lerasium atium alloy makes you a feruchemist" theory. 

A Lerasium-Atium Alloy turn you into a Seer.

 

9 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

I was also thinking upon how much it would stink to be an aluminum compounder. Really, talk about useless. At least duralumin compounder could boost their compounded feruchemy. But aluminum. 

Actually we don't know if the Identity surplus could be a good barrier aganist outer Investiture. If It is the case, an alluminium Compounder would be mostly immune to all Cosmere Magics... It's not really a poor thing

[Agent34]

To add to Yata's last point; Brandon has in his notes an aluminium savant being capable of purging unwanted Investitures from the body. So aluminium in the Scadrian magics isn't necessarily as useless as it may appear.

[Steeldancer he/him]

8 hours ago, Yata said:

It's the 3 anni expression of your Spirit web.  you could Imagine It as an hashcode if you know a Little the computer science .

Allomantic Lerasium's effect is to gave Allomancy so if you burn a Lerasium you Will get Mistborn's Power. If you then burn another Lerasium bead your power Will be boosted.

A Lerasium-Atium Alloy turn you into a Seer.

 

Actually we don't know if the Identity surplus could be a good barrier aganist outer Investiture. If It is the case, an alluminium Compounder would be mostly immune to all Cosmere Magics... It's not really a poor thing

Do you have any WoB to back ANY of this up? 

For at least the first one I have this: 

Quote

CHAOS

Does atium have a "side effect", much like how lerasium has a "side effect" in creating Mistborn?

BRANDON SANDERSON

RAFO

It's not the one im looking for, that lerasiums primary thing is not creating mistborn. It's a side effect. 

The seer one is that confirmed? Because that would make no sense unless you had less atium than lerasium. A 50/50 alloy should make you into a feruchemist (if I'm right. Feruchemists came from SOMEWHERE)

[Yata he/him]

45 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Do you have any WoB to back ANY of this up? 

For at least the first one I have this: 

It's not the one im looking for, that lerasiums primary thing is not creating mistborn. It's a side effect. 

The seer one is that confirmed? Because that would make no sense unless you had less atium than lerasium. A 50/50 alloy should make you into a feruchemist (if I'm right. Feruchemists came from SOMEWHERE)

You could easly find a WoB about a Mistborn burning Lerasium and his boost in power (sorry but I am at work and I can't search for you now).

About the Atium-Lerasium there is a reddit wob that honestly I have no idea on how to find it, maybe the @Pagerunner WoB DB has it. It says that an Atium-Lerasium alloy Realmatic Speaking could do potentially two things

1) Make a Seer

2) Explode

As we saw the exploding things is being gave to the Harmonium (that is a concept near to atium-lerasium alloy but as element) we could say the Alloy crafts a Seer (as all the others Lerasium's alloys make Mistings instead of Mistborn.

Notice on this point this is not an RPG game, the power not have to be better or worst from a balancing reason so yes....the two godmetals alloy could gave an effect lesser than a Lerasium alone (as almost nobody would use allomantically any other Lerasium's alloy).

 

We don't know yet how the Feruchemy come to be, as far as we know it's possible that the Terris obtained directly by a Shard or for some Realmatic Weirdness happened to them (in my signature you could find a theory based on a similar thought than yours but it's probably wrong too).

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

If you BURN an Atium-Lerasium Alloy it will make you a seer, because that's what Lerasium alloys do allomantically. But what happens if you TAP it, i.e. use it feruchemically? I do think that could create a Feruchemist. Note that it should be able to store everything too, and that you would have to tap the inherent investiture in the metal.

As an aside, I still think Lerasium Feruchemy stores sentience.

[Metalrift]

I don't see any reason to assume that it's possible to tap a metalmind that hasn't been filled, which is my primary reason for doubting the "tap a metal to obtain feruchemy" theories. If it were possible, why isn't it possible to just tap youth from atium without storing any? It seems more likely to me that it was either given by Preservation or arose through some spiritual mutation, as those seem to have reason to believe they could work. I think tapping ettmetal may be possible even if it hasn't been filled due to the "energy" it seems to have, but I think only a full feruchemist could do this.

Regarding the 50/50 atium/lerasium alloy, as atium allows sight into the spiritual realm and lerasium alters the spirit web I suspect that the alloy would give more specific alteration or would partially move the burner to the spiritual realm permanently. These seem more reasonable to me than giving feruchemy. 

As for compounding, I assumed that filling a metalmind could turn the compounder into some sort of savant while it is being filled, which could be seen as a kind of compounding.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

Lerasium and Atium have intrinsic investiture, as opposed to other metals which act as gateways. It SHOULD be tappable; but I don't think it's as simple as there's a store; let's tap. But the investiture is there; accessing it should be possible. 

We'll hopefully find out more in the future.

[Calderis he/him]

29 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Lerasium and Atium have intrinsic investiture, as opposed to other metals which act as gateways. It SHOULD be tappable; but I don't think it's as simple as there's a store; let's tap. But the investiture is there; accessing it should be possible. 

We'll hopefully find out more in the future.

No, it shouldn't be tappable. 

The God metals do consist of investiture, but the issue is that they have been completely transitioned into the physical realm into a solid form. They are investiture, but they don't contain investiture. This is why atium is a pushable metal, whereas a metalmind resists Allomantic push/pull effects. 

To access the power of a Godmetal, it has to be converted back into investiture, which burning does. 

You "tap" a metalmind made of a Atium/Lerasium alloy which had not been stored into, the act of tapping would have to consume the metal to convert it back into investiture. Feruchemy doesn't do that. 

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

Which is why I said I don't think it's as simple as tapping it. I think there is a method to 'tap', for lack of a better term, the investiture in the metal Feruchemically, as opposed to Allomantically. But you'd need to do something else first and I'm not sure what that 'something' would be.

But if you can access the investiture Allomantically, you should be able to do it Fetuchemically and Hemalurgically. The question is how.

[Yata he/him]

14 minutes ago, Calderis said:

No, it shouldn't be tappable. 

The God metals do consist of investiture, but the issue is that they have been completely transitioned into the physical realm into a solid form. They are investiture, but they don't contain investiture. This is why atium is a pushable metal, whereas a metalmind resists Allomantic push/pull effects. 

To access the power of a Godmetal, it has to be converted back into investiture, which burning does. 

You "tap" a metalmind made of a Atium/Lerasium alloy which had not been stored into, the act of tapping would have to consume the metal to convert it back into investiture. Feruchemy doesn't do that. 

I agree with almost everything Calderis said.

I think there is just an exception with high unstable Godmetals like Harmonium that tends to release power while it consumes itself with a minimal input

[Calderis he/him]

11 minutes ago, Yata said:

I  think there is just an exception with high unstable Godmetals like Harmonium that tends to release power while it consumes itself with a minimal input

Yeah. I was meaning to speak more generally, but I could see it specific instances. 

I wouldn't want to attempt it with Harmonium though. Harmonium is like someone built a house of cards out of Nitro-glycerin and vials of hydrogen gas. It's stable enough to stand on its own, but a simple trigger makes it all go boom. 

Tapping Harmonium, if it's possible, seems like something that you might not live through. 

[Yata he/him]

59 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Tapping Harmonium, if it's possible, seems like something that you might not live through. 

Yeah, more raw Kinetic Investiture rather than an actual effect...Sure there are tons of Application with a metal that letterally release Investiture but I don't think you could use to alter Spirit-Webs in an useful way

[Weltall]

@Yata@Steeldancer Here's where Brandon mentioned what a atium/lerasium alloy would do. Yata's memory is correct and since we've already gotten the 'metal that explodes violently' result of a fusion of Preservation and Ruin's powers in metal form with Harmonium, I think it's a safe bet that an alloy of these two metals would do what every other lerasium alloy is known to do: Make Mistings.