[OB] Shallan full Knight Radiant

[Watchcry he/him]

Am I looking into this too deeply? 

Quote

Earlier in the day, she’d activated this Oathgate, bringing forth a few hundred more of the thousands who were waiting at Narak. That would be it for a while: each use of the device used an incredible amount of Stormlight. Even with the gemstones that the newcomers had brought, there wasn’t much to go around.

Plus, there wasn’t much of her to go around. Only an active, full Knight Radiant could work the control buildings at the center of each platform, initiating the swap. For now, that meant only Shallan.

Shallan states she's the only full Knight Radiant for now. I think she's the only one we know of to reach the fourth oath. Does this make her a full Radiant or does having a blade make her one? 

And what of Renarin? Why doesn't he qualify to work the Oathgate?

Edited September 13, 2017 by Watchcry
Misspelled word

[Nymeros]

You're thinking too deeply. Shallan has more truths to speak and Renarin has no blade.

[asterion137 he/him]

On another note, does anyone know why Shallan got her blade so fast? She got it even before she swore her first Truth. Is it related to the Lightweaver Resonance?

[Nathrangking he/him]

1 minute ago, asterion137 said:

On another note, does anyone know why Shallan got her blade so fast? She got it even before she swore her first Truth. Is it related to the Lightweaver Resonance?

It is not a matter of speed. Whatever led to having formed the bond in her early years involved the swearing of the 1st ideal and probably the speaking of a truth and the gaining of the blade. Over time the bond degraded , but she never went back to zero. Thus she had already cut through some of the metaphorical red tape which allowed her to have a blade earlier than say Kaladin.

[Calderis he/him]

48 minutes ago, asterion137 said:

On another note, does anyone know why Shallan got her blade so fast? She got it even before she swore her first Truth. Is it related to the Lightweaver Resonance?

As @Nathrangking said. Shallan progressed to having the blade as a child before she killed her mother.

The bond degraded, and all we've seen is her restoring the bond she already possessed. Having gained the ability to form a blade, Pattern never lost the ability, even though mentally he regressed with the bond. 

There's a WoB that says that at the end of WoR, Shallan is one oath ahead of Kaladin. She is currently the furthest progressed Radiant we know.

[Yata he/him]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

As @Nathrangking said. Shallan progressed to having the blade as a child before she killed her mother.

The bond degraded, and all we've seen is her restoring the bond she already possessed. Having gained the ability to form a blade, Pattern never lost the ability, even though mentally he regressed with the bond. 

There's a WoB that says that at the end of WoR, Shallan is one oath ahead of Kaladin. She is currently the furthest progressed Radiant we know.

Actually what you said is mostly correction but we don't know if Shallan-Pattern losed the ability to form a Shardblade in the meanwhile.

The First time Shallan actually summons Patternblade in the current times is after re-spoking 2 truths (equivalent to 3 Oaths)...before She always stopped before summons the Blade so se don't know if She would be actually capable of doing or if She believe to be able alone.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

I think they are applying the term full KR to Third Oath and above. But its just Shallan there as Kaladin is flying around hunting Voidbringers.

On Shallan and her bond, she never killed Pattern, but her bond just degraded. I think a WoB says she may have once been at the Five Oaths.

Daaam, just had a random thought. Five Oaths, Five Parshendi leaders, coincidence?

[Yata he/him]

15 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I think they are applying the term full KR to Third Oath and above. But its just Shallan there as Kaladin is flying around hunting Voidbringers.

On Shallan and her bond, she never killed Pattern, but her bond just degraded. I think a WoB says she may have once been at the Five Oaths.

Daaam, just had a random thought. Five Oaths, Five Parshendi leaders, coincidence?

The Parshendi Leader are five only because they remembered only five Forms. As they will discover more Forms, more leaders will join the rank.

They were less in the previous centuries (I don't remember what is the last form to be discovered)

Edited September 13, 2017 by Yata

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

2 minutes ago, Yata said:

The Parshendi Leader are five only because they remembered only five Forms. As they will discover more Forms, more leaders will join the rank.

They were less in the previous centuries (I don't remember what is the last form to be discovered)

I'm not so certain of this. Eshonai in WoR thought they were only Five. First Five Dullform, as the only form they knew, then Five Workform as the one they discovered, it was only with the next disovery they decided to make one leader per form.

[Yata he/him]

6 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I'm not so certain of this. Eshonai in WoR thought they were only Five. First Five Dullform, as the only form they knew, then Five Workform as the one they discovered, it was only with the next disovery they decided to make one leader per form.

You could be right, but I don't see a link between this and the Radiants' Oaths as the Listeners never becomed Radiants in the past.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

Absolutely. Was just a random thought I had while writing 5 oaths . 

Brandon's numbers are often relevant, but uhm, I guess sometimes a blue curtain is a blue curtain.

Edited September 13, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

Five is half of ten and ten is significant on Roshar...

[Pammie]

This may be a dumb question, but is Shallan considered a full Knight Radiant yet? Will she ever be, unless she decides she's a KR or someone declares her a KR? Is it an arbitrary title or something directly linked to the Nahel bond/Spren?

Throughout the books, we're constantly reminded that just being a surgebinder doesn't make one a Radiant, they have to say the oaths first. But we also know that each order have different oaths, there's a WoB that says that some orders only have one oath, some have multiples, and some, like Lightweavers, have none. They use truths to deepen their bond. 

So, I guess I'm asking, is there a different threshold for each order to become a KR? And, once they reach this threshold, are they considered a KR by their spren? Or is this just an arbitrary title given by the man-made order? Like, if a surgebinder reached the final oath, would their spren be like 'Yay, you're a Knight Radiant! Congrats, you're crazy powerful now!' Or would the leader of their order be like, 'Oh, you reached the fifth oath? Well, that's good enough, let me write you down on the Knight Radiant Membership List.'  (Sorry if I'm asking something redundant, I haven't been able to find much info on it)

[redbishop]

Even the Lightweavers have one oath - "Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination."  This oath is common to all Orders.

Based on Syl's chastising Kaladin in earlier books, I think being a KR is similar to being a Jedi - one can use Surges (the Force) without embodying the ideals of the KR (the Jedi Code). 

What we haven't seen yet are the gradiations.  Because of the Rosharan obsession with shards, I expect a KR will be considered a 'full KR' once they can summon a shardblade.  Once the first of them discovers how to summon living shardplate, we will probably see addition grades established.

[yulerule]

All the Orders have 5 oaths. The first Ideal is the same for each. All but the lightweavers then need to swear four additional oaths that are different for each order. Lightweavers need to speak four truths.

 

( I think it's four truths, can anyone confirm the number?)

[Nymeros]

35 minutes ago, Pammie said:

This may be a dumb question, but is Shallan considered a full Knight Radiant yet?

Well Dalinar reformed the Knights Radiant and she is a member along with Renarin so.....yeah.  

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

Whether that is how they used to do it or not, currently it seems they are called Surgebinders, and switch to Knight Radiants when they earn their Shardblade. 

[Calderis he/him]

Historically the Knight had five levels of advancement. The first ideal and the four oaths (or Truths for Lightweavers). We don't know at what point they were called Knights Radiant in the past, though currently the definition being used is once they can summon a blade and activate the Oathgate (so Shallan and Kaladin). Not sure how that works for Dalinar... But he's Dalinar. 

In Edgedancer, Nale says something along the lines that with Honor dead men may discover the upper levels of the Oaths. This makes me think that the historical limit of five oaths was an artificial constraint and that our current Radiants may discover further oaths and progress to stronger abilities. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Calderis

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

11 minutes ago, Calderis said:

In Edgedancer, Nale says something along the lines that with Honor dead men may discover the upper levels of the Oaths. This makes me think that the historical limit of five oaths was an artificial constraint and that our current Radiants may discover further oaths and progress to stronger abilities.

Quite possible. I doubt there is any obsessive fan that hasn't thought at least once our main heroes may end up been the substitute Heralds in some kind of form . The upper levels fit into that quite nicely. 

[Yata he/him]

Shallan is a 4/5 full Radiant Knight as She Spoke 3 Truth After the First Ideal (shared by all' the orders).

In Edgledancer we got some of the ancient nomenclature for Surgebinder but O don't remember both of them, only that they are called Shardbearers once they are able to summon the Blade...this thing have to change in a world where that Word is associate to something else

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

9 minutes ago, Yata said:

Shallan is a 4/5 full Radiant Knight as She Spoke 3 Truth After the First Ideal (shared by all' the orders).

In Edgledancer we got some of the ancient nomenclature for Surgebinder but O don't remember both of them, only that they are called Shardbearers once they are able to summon the Blade...this thing have to change in a world where that Word is associate to something else

I know Shallan has been said to be at 4th level (1 above Kaladin who is at 3rd level) but what was the third truth? Killed father, killed mother, and? Pattern is the Sword and she destroyed her family should be included in killed mother. 

[Yata he/him]

Just now, WhiteLeeopard said:

I know Shallan has been said to be at 4th level (1 above Kaladin who is at 3rd level) but what was the third truth? Killed father, killed mother, and? Pattern is the Sword and she destroyed her family should be included in killed mother. 

"I am scaried" is the First Truth She Spoke when She Soulcast the First time in the current times 

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

I always find it curious that Shallan is more advanced than Kaladin but he has greater control over his abilities and Surges. Shallan is still quite limited in Transformation.

[Yata he/him]

6 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I always find it curious that Shallan is more advanced than Kaladin but he has greater control over his abilities and Surges. Shallan is still quite limited in Transformation.

Shallan's problem is mainly due a trauma and the fact One of her Surge is Dangerous to test with.

Kal has the chance to test more freely in a controlled setting with people Who try to help him.

Shallan had no all' of this. Now I think Shallan would fastly recover as She could ask the Soulcasters to help her.

They use a mechanical way to access the Surge but regardless they are more skilled than her (much more the One who developed Savantism)