Stormrunner1730 Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 My question is: Why is Jezrien and not Ishar the King of the Heralds? We know that Jezrien is the Herald of the Windrunners and also King of the Heralds. Ishar is the Herald of the Bondsmiths. Both Orders seem to have an emphasis on leadership. However, based on Dalinar's character, it seems like the Bondsmiths should be the Order in a governance role. Obviously we don't know much of anything about the structure of the Knights Radiant as an organization. But given that the Stormfather/Honor chose to show Dalinar/Gavilar (the effective leaders of Alethkar) the way to bring back the Radiants, why would the head of their Order not be in charge of the Heralds? Dalinar also bonded the Stormfather who is one of the most powerful spren on Roshar (and one of 3? "Highspren"). If I'm looking at this wrong, please let me know. It just seems odd to me that the leader of the Order associated with governance is not also the King of the heralds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crucible of Shards he/him Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Well, Ishar's divine attributes are pious and guiding. Guiding is more of a counselor's role, which is very much how he's been acting according to the other heralds' descriptions. Jezrien's attributes are leading and protecting, so he'd be the person seeking the guidance of his counselor in how to best lead and protect. Also, the Highspren are the spren of the Skybreakers, although I think we understood what you meant. The Stormfather is indeed one of the three super-spren of the Bondsmiths Edited September 12, 2017 by Crucible of Shards Clarity 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormrunner1730 Posted September 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Ah, that would make sense then. And yeah, "super-spren" was more what I was going for. But thanks for the clarification about Ishar's divine attributes. It just seems to me like Dalinar is more likely to be the overall "leader" of the new Radiants rather than Kaladin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crucible of Shards he/him Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Yeah, especially with his personality and past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 For now... but that may change as we get further into the 2 arcs of the SA. Kaladin may end up as the leader of the re-founded Knights Radiant by the end of the first arc as Dalinar does some huge sacrifice or something to stop the big bad end of arc 1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Stormrunner1730 said: Why is Jezrien and not Ishar the King of the Heralds? It's mostly the attribute difference between "guiding" and "leading" that Crucible pointed out, but there is something else. Jezrien is King of the Heralds, but he is also Herald of Kings. Taln mentioned that Jezrien would teach men leadership. Jezrien is in the leading role because it's literally part of his job. He leads, and teaches other to lead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormrunner1730 Posted September 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 26 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said: It's mostly the attribute difference between "guiding" and "leading" that Crucible pointed out, but there is something else. Jezrien is King of the Heralds, but he is also Herald of Kings. Taln mentioned that Jezrien would teach men leadership. Jezrien is in the leading role because it's literally part of his job. He leads, and teaches other to lead. Ah, I see. So you think maybe Dalinar's role will fall more into the "background" once the Orders/Alethkar/People of Roshar are united? On a side note, this is leading to an existential crisis (haha) because Kaladin is my favorite character, but I personally identify with "guiding" more than leading. Although I would probably identify with protecting more than any of the other Divine Attributes, so I'm partially salvaged. I would also want Kaladin's powers haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killik he/him Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 I think there was a mention that the Bondsmiths held a peacekeeping role within Urithiru between the orders. I also remember a reference to them being the diplomatic tie to the Silver Kingdoms. This makes me think that while they may have been leaders (note that is not THE leaders) in the governance of the KR, the Windrunners were the battlefield leaders. Certainly the Bonsmiths were active in battle strategy and the like. As evidenced by one of the WoR epigraphs: “So Melishi retired to his tent, and resolved to destroy the Voidbringers upon the next day, but that night did present a different stratagem, related to the unique abilities of the Bondsmiths; and being hurried, he could make no specific account of his process; it was related to the very nature of the Heralds and their divine duties, an attribute the Bondsmiths alone could address.” –From Words of Radiance, chapter 30, page 18[18] Seeing as how the KR was formed with the main purpose of fighting in the Desolations, the natural leadership role would fall on the battlefield generals: the Windrunners. We have been shown very clearly that Dalinar has been moving from a battlefield general to a diplomat and strategist. While I believe he will certainly be the most natural leader of the new KR from its beginning, I think Jezrien is the "King of Heralds" for the same reason the Windrunners were considered leaders, he was the battlefield general and the battlefield was the sole reason for the Heralds to be back on Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted September 12, 2017 Report Share Posted September 12, 2017 Just now, Stormrunner1730 said: So you think maybe Dalinar's role will fall more into the "background" once the Orders/Alethkar/People of Roshar are united? Without having Word of Taln on what Ishar should have taught mankind, I cannot say. Actually, the Heraldic Teachings may be largely tied to the Heralds alone. Jezrien teaching men Leadership makes sense, but can you see Kaladin doing that? We know Nalan thought the Skybreakers claiming him as their Patron Herald was "a pursuit of vanity and annoyance." Maybe they chose to emulate the Lord of Laws on their own, rather than it being part of their actual jobs... I also have personal speculation on Bondsmiths. One stays at the Circle of Thrones in Urithiru, but what about the other two? I see one being in the command tent, like a military strategist, and the other leading the charge like a general. Dalinar's character arc could easily turn him into any of these. Urithiru: After unifying the world, he stays to keep it united like Killik mentioned. Strategist: Involved in the fight, but avoiding his Blackthorn days. Battlefield General: Dalinar is forced to go Full Blackthorn against the Desolation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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