Things Kaladin Hates

[Hafrigado]

2 minutes ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

I think it's abundantly obvious I didn't get my point across well at all. I apologise. I have no doubts to your sincerity and I don't think that is your mindset, I was trying to illustrate how some of the things you said could be interpreted that way. Please don't take my post as a rebuke. In no way shape or form do I have anything against you for seeking knowledge. There is no bad blood on my end and I hope my lack of tact has not caused any on yours. I have no intention to push you away or make you feel uncomfortable, nor did I want to shame you in any way. 

I know, and I appreciate your politeness and understanding of an ignorant person. But as you said:

30 minutes ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

know you aren't meaning to be offensive or hurtful, but if you were having this conversation with a friend who had depression, I would bet they would both feel hurt that you aren't taking their experiences seriously, as well as losing trust between you.

I didn't feel like you were saying I owed you an apology, but if what I said made anyone feel like this then I should apologize to them.

[Calderis he/him]

9 minutes ago, Hafrigado said:

I know, and I appreciate your politeness and understanding of an ignorant person. But as you said:

I didn't feel like you were saying I owed you an apology, but if what I said made anyone feel like this then I should apologize to them.

It's unfortunate that more people aren't like you. You're aware of your limitations in grasping a condition you don't experience, and willing to take in the opinions of those who do. You're tactful and proactively repentant for even the possibility that your words could have been misconstrued. 

If more people had your mindset, those of us with depression would have to deal with a lot less of the "Well have you tried doing something different?" comments we have to put up with from people both incapable of understanding, and unwilling to accept that limitation in themselves. 

Thank you for being one of the good guys. 

Edited September 6, 2017 by Calderis

[Hafrigado]

By the way I read the Wikipedia article for depression, and only a few sentences in I realized you guys were definitely right. I'd give all of you upvotes, but unfortunately I'm out for today.

[1stBondsmith he/him]

My wonderful wife has been fighting depression for over 22 years. It's a fight. Some medications in recent years had a profound effect on her ability to see good coming, where before, she could not see even common, predictable things as going well in the future. Every day I would tell her the potential good things that would happen that day and in the near future. She would ask me what things could happen to get out of difficult trials we were in, because she simply could not see any of them happening. It took two year of this to have her trust that those things COULD actually happen, because they did over and over, before she admitted to herself she was being unreasonable about her outlook. 

She relates very well to Kaladin's gloomy outlook that everything he values will be taken and gone. But she is not there anymore. She is back the way she was early in our marriage, and medication was a critical part of that, not just counselling and perspective. Kaladin won't have that benefit. It is a bit hard for me to watch him without the hope he will be able to change entirely. I have been my wife's Tien, and she really fears losing me. (I hope for more than that reason, but she has said it is one of them). 

[Tsidqiyah he/him]

I fight depression but unlike a lot of people i can't use medication to treat it. As such I do have to say it is harder to overcome and recover completely, but it is possible, and i hope to see that in Kaladin's future. 

If anybody wants to talk about depression, PM me. It took years but i not longer avoid that part of my identity, and am will to help you through yours or just discuss mine.

[Seloun]

Things that Shallan likes for no reason or more than perhaps rationally (some are sort of jokey just because other characters comment on it):

Rain as mentioned above (the obvious counterpoint to Kaladin's). There's also another section when she meets the Ghostbloods in the pavilion where she says basically the same thing.

 

Alcohol (I have a pet theory that Shallan is prone to alcoholism, as well as her father):

Quote

Adolin stepped up to join them, the hum of conversation all around giving them some privacy within the crowd. He had found a cup of orange wine for her somewhere, which he held out. “Shallan Davar?” he asked.

“Um . . .” Was she? Oh, right. She took the wine. “Yes?”

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 440). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

The wine disappears somewhere, its fate never mentioned (this scene continues and Shallan participates in the meeting with the Highprinces, ending up with Sebarial, for a while).

Quote

“You’re asking me?” Adolin asked, turning around the menu so she could see it. “What do you think we should order?”

“Storms,” she breathed. “Those are all different kinds of wine?”

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 568). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

Quote

She settled into the seat beside the table. The woman with the mask appeared beside her, holding a cup and a kettle of something steaming. Shallan nodded hesitantly, and was rewarded with a cup of mulled orange wine. She sipped it— she probably didn’t need to worry about poison, as these people could have killed her at any time. The others under the pavilion spoke with one another in hushed voices, but Shallan couldn’t make out any of it. She felt like she was on display before an audience.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (pp. 629-630). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

Quote

It worked. The illusion stayed. “Ha!” Shallan said, getting herself a cup of wine. She walked back and eased onto the bed— flopping down with a cup of red wine did not seem prudent— and looked over the side at the floor, where Pattern sat beneath Veil. He was visible because of the Stormlight.

I’ll need to take that into account, Shallan thought. Build illusions so that he can hide in them.

“It worked?” Pattern said. “How did you know it would work?”

“I didn’t.” Shallan took a sip of wine. “I guessed.”

She drank another sip as Pattern hummed. Jasnah would not have approved. Scholarship requires a sharp mind and alert senses. These do not mix with alcohol. Shallan drank the rest of the wine in a gulp.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (pp. 739-740). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

People pooping:

Quote

He paused again. She was probably supposed to ask what happened next.

“What if you need to poop?” she asked instead.

“Well, I put my back to the chasm and laid about me with my sword, intending to . . . Wait. What did you say?”

“Poop,” Shallan said. “You’re out there on the battlefield, encased in metal like a crab in its shell. What do you do if nature calls?”

“I . . . er . . .” Adolin frowned at her. “That is not something any woman has ever asked me before.”

“Yay for originality!” Shallan said, though she blushed as she said it. Jasnah would have been displeased. Couldn’t Shallan mind her tongue for a single conversation? She’d gotten him talking about something he liked; everything had been going well. Now this.

...

“I’m not doing anything to you,” she said. “I’m just curious.” And honestly, she was. She’d thought about this. Perhaps more than it deserved consideration.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 571). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

Espionage:

Quote

That was, she thought, the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever done.

And yet she found herself excited, flushed with the thrill of it. Storms! She’d enjoyed that. The tension, the sweat, the talking her way out of being killed, even the chase at the end. What was wrong with her? When she’d tried to steal from Jasnah, every part of the experience had made her sick.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (pp. 497-498). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

The whole thing with Tyn.

 

Respect of bad people:

Quote

Shallan moved to pull back, but Iyatil held on. “Who are you really, Veil?” the woman asked. “You caught me in stealth spying upon you, and you can lose me in the streets. This is not easily accomplished. Your clever drawings fascinate Mraize, another near-impossible task, considering all that he has seen. Now what you have done today.”

Shallan felt a thrill. Why should she feel so excited to have the respect of these people? They were murderers.

But storms take her, she had earned that respect.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (pp. 769-771). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

There's also the whole bit about the deserters, but I'm not sure there's a specific instance for it.

 

Wit/Hoid:

Quote

“You!” Shallan exclaimed.

“Yes, yes. People certainly are good at identifying me today. Perhaps I need to wear—”

Wit cut off as Shallan lunged at him. Kaladin dropped to the ground, reaching for his side knife, then hesitated as Shallan grabbed Wit in an embrace, her head against his chest, her eyes squeezed shut.

...

“You hugged Wit,” Adolin said.

“Is that his name?” Shallan asked.

“One of them,” Wit said, apparently still unsettled. “There are too many to count, really. Granted, most of them are related to one form of curse or another. . . .”

“You hugged Wit,” Adolin said.

Shallan blushed. “Was that improper?”

“It’s not about propriety,” Adolin said. “It’s about common sense. Hugging him is like hugging a whitespine or, or a pile of nails or something. I mean it’s Wit. You’re not supposed to like him.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 641). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

The sorrow of watching a life crumble, the crushing guilt of being powerless, the terrible nothing that clawed inside and threatened to smother her:

Quote

He saw it in her eyes. The anguish, the frustration. The terrible nothing that clawed inside and sought to smother her. She knew. It was there, inside. She had been broken.

Then she smiled. Oh, storms. She smiled anyway.

It was the single most beautiful thing he’d seen in his entire life.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 849). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

Jam. Okay, this may be reasonable.

 

[Worldhopper he/him]

I would like to see Kaladin stuck in traffic. Storming fool doesn't even know what a bad day is. 

[Landis963 he/him]

On 9/7/2017 at 10:03 AM, Worldhopper said:

I would like to see Kaladin stuck in traffic. Storming fool doesn't even know what a bad day is. 

In fairness, Kaladin's had several very shitty days.  "Stuck in traffic" kind of seems like a first-world-problem, considering.  

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

Kaladin stuck in traffic:

 

Kaladin sat glumly in his Geo Metro staring up at the sky. The rain pouring down only made the situation worse. Traffic was bad enough without the Weeping to pile things on. He was running late, of course. Not enough Stormlight to fly all the way in. Well, not and be able to fight afterward anyway. That meant traffic, and he always underestimated traffic. 

The air coming out of the vents bugged him, so he turned it off. It might get a little hot in here, but a man-made breeze was no substitute for proper winds. The window wasn't bad, you could attract a windspren that way, sometimes, in a better car. Kaladin didn't spend enough time practicing to be comfortable driving something that quickly, but he had been with Adolin once when he had tested out one of his new shardcars. Only once. He'd stick with flying. Storming Princling The cars inched forward. Kaladin sighed. 

He looked over to the left. There was an old man sitting in a silver metal car, a sleek mix of angle and plane. What appeared to be large crates and ropes were affixed to the back, along with a small white cylinder. His white hair shot out in all directions, and he was wearing a strange white suit and yellow gloves that were made of some strange slick material. He saw Kaladin looking and grinned, lowering the goggles over his eyes.. 

Suddenly, the silver car lurched as the wheels retracted into it. Amazingly, the car began to rise into the sky! A blue light sprayed from the tires, which now pointed downward, flames were shooting out of the back. It shot off into the distance. Growling, Kaladin opened his glove box where he kept his spheres, he pulled them out, held them in his hands, but then put them back. He might need them, and it was still the middle of the Weeping. 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Fifth of Daybreak

[+robardin he/him]

On 9/7/2017 at 10:03 AM, Worldhopper said:

I would like to see Kaladin stuck in traffic. Storming fool doesn't even know what a bad day is. 

Kaladin before he became a Surgebinder? Because as a Windrunner, traffic is Something That Happens To Other People. He could fly over the traffic, Lash the other cars upwards and out of the way, or do both.

The only Radiants who'd be less bothered by traffic would be the ones with the Surge of Transportation.

 

[Garglemesh he/him]

Easy: sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.

[+robardin he/him]

People who put ketchup on their chouta.

He's not Herdazian, but c'mon, man!

[AbsentKeeper he/him]

7 hours ago, Landis963 said:

In fairness, Kaladin's had several very shitty days.  "Stuck in traffic" kind of seems like a first-world-problem, considering.  

This is true, but while life threatening danger might be worse in the long run, nothing is more Storming irritating than bad traffic when you're in a hurry! 

[Seloun]

Something to keep in mind is that Kaladin's grumpiness might be related to his Surgebinding. Nale generalizes Edgedancers in the Lift interlude:

Quote

“Yes. It is unfortunate they were always so concerned with small-minded things, while ignoring those of greater import. It appears you share their temperament. You have become one of them.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 705). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

And there's other indications that the Orders might generally share temperament. It's interesting to note Shallan's 'seems to like everything' trait; one other prominent character from Kaladin's past also exhibits this:

Quote

Kaladin’s brother climbed onto the roof and walked up beside him, then lay down, staring skyward. Someone else might have tried to cheer Kaladin up, and they would have failed. But somehow Tien knew the right thing to do. For the moment, that was keeping silent.

“You like the rain, don’t you?” Kaladin finally asked him.

“Yeah,” Tien said. Of course, Tien liked pretty much everything. “Hard to stare up at like this, though. I keep blinking.”

For some reason, that made Kaladin smile.

Sanderson, Brandon. The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) (p. 616). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

Tien is probably a proto-Lightweaver. I've made this argument before, and I'll reiterate some of the stronger points. Tien is a great artist:

Quote

“Tien,” Kaladin said, amazed. “This is beautiful.” The details were amazing— the eyes, the hooves, the lines in the tail. It looked just like the majestic animals that pulled Roshone’s carriage. “Did you show this to Ral?”

Sanderson, Brandon. The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) (p. 616). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

This might also potentially be an example of Tien taking a Memory. Tien is also one of the few people who seem to make Kaladin actually happy:

Quote

“It’s not as bad as it seems, Kaladin,” his brother said, reaching up to hold his arm. “Things are never as bad as they seem. You’ll see.” So many objections rose in his mind, but Tien’s smile banished them. There, in the midst of the dreariest part of the year, Kaladin felt for a moment as if he had glimpsed sunshine. He could swear he felt things grow brighter around them, the storm retreating a shade, the sky lightening.

Sanderson, Brandon. The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) (p. 617). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

There are other scenes where Tien makes Kaladin inexplicably happier. Contrast that with the chasm scene where Kaladin explicitly makes the comparison with Shallan:

Quote

He should feel like a fool. He’d done it again— he’d been telling her how easy her life was, while she’d had that hiding inside of her all along. This time, though, he didn’t feel like an idiot. He felt like he understood. Something. He didn’t know what. The chasm just seemed a little brighter.

Tien always did that to me . . . he thought. Even on the darkest day.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 850). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

It's not a huge sample, but given what we've seen with Tien and Shallan as well as Nale's characterization of Edgedancers, it seems quite possible that Kaladin's grumpiness/dislike of rain and depression symptoms might be related to being a Windrunner (this would also suggest the relative interactions between them might also be a commonality, i.e. Lightweavers make Windrunners feel better). It's also worth noting that Windrunners and Lightweavers are on 'opposite' sides of the Surgebinding chart; maybe it's reflective of Honor/Cultivation's personalities (the 'top' of the Surgebinding chart appears to be towards Honor while the 'bottom' appears to be towards Cultivation). The 'Lightweaver makes Windrunners feel happier' could also potentially be some kind of resonance from Honor and Cultivation's relationship (though based on Shallan's effect on people, Lightweavers might make people happy in general).