[OB] Unite Them... [Mistborn Era 2 spoilers]

[KidWayne he/him]

So, from the Oathbringer prologue, we have some new information. Specifically, we now know what the motivations of each of the three men trying to "unite them" might be (based on the instructions obtained from the Almighty's vision-diary).

Gavilar & Dalinar each received the visions from the Stormfather, and Taravangian heard about the visions from Gavilar.

• We are directly told that Gavilar intended to "unite them" with a threat of danger.
• We can infer that Dalinar is determined to "unite them" through common purpose & a sense of honor/duty.
• We can also infer that Taravangian is attempting to "unite them" with deception, political conquest, and esoteric methods (e.g. death rattles, Nightwatcher-granted super intellect, manipulating a truthless)

Obviously, Dalinar is the only one of the three who is going about his efforts at unification in a manner consistent with the first oath of the Knights Radiant. However, my thoughts go from this observation to the secret societies. We have the Diagram society, the Sons of Honor, and the Ghostbloods. Of those three groups, two are represented in this group of men (Gavilar → Sons of Honor & Taravangian → the Diagram society). We also have two of the three shards whose power influenced the formation of two of the societies (Honor → Sons of Honor & Cultivation → the Diagram society).

So, where do you all think the Ghostbloods fit into all of this?

Acknowledging that it's pure conjecture, likely coincidental, and that correlation does not equal causation; is there any chance the Ghostbloods have a connection to Odium?

Wild Cosmere theory: The Ghostbloods do a lot of world-hopping. If the Ghostbloods are connected to Odium, do you think there is a chance that Kelsier might have created a link between Roshar and the Southern Scadrians via Iyatil? What about the possibility that a chance encounter between Kelsier & Odium (or a more mundane connection via the Ghostbloods) is influencing the "other god" goings-on on Scadrial in the Wax & Wayne era?

 

Edited August 30, 2017 by KidWayne

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

Of course Kell met Odium... how else would he punch him?! 

Jokes aside, Kell probably has something to do with the SoScads leaving home in the first place. Beyond that I can't begin to guess at whether or not there is a connection. (But I think Iyatil has a Feruchemical steel medallion.) 

I suspect Kell has been to Roshar, but that's mostly because it's clearly number one on the top destinations for Worldhoppers. (So far we've had Baon, Galladon, Demoux, Nazh, Iyatil, Felt, Vasher and Nightblood. Probably some others I've missed, and I'm not counting Hoid or the Heralds.)

But I doubt either has a direct connection to Odium.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Kingsdaughter613

[+Spicker]

I don't know if I'm fully on board with all of this theory, but there is definitely merit to it. Something that could support the idea of Odium influencing the Ghostbloods is the change we see in Shallan's father. I don't recall the exact timeline of everything, but if I remember correctly her father's anger and mental stability worsening seemed to coincide with his further involvement with the Ghostbloods. The changes in his temperament screamed to me of some sort of outside influence.

[KidWayne he/him]

@Spicker I really like the way you're thinking. The changes in Shallan's dad correlate quite nicely with his Ghost blood involvement, don't they?

Edited September 3, 2017 by KidWayne
Grammar - Subject verb agreement

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

 In Papa Davar's case though, that actually started after Mama Davar's death. I would say it broke him, which made cracks in the soul, allowing for Odium's influence, as mentioned a few times by his slightly red eyes/hateful-wrathful behaviour; which, IIRC, Elhokar also displayed once or twice.

As for the Ghostbloods being under Odium's influence, I would disagree. They're a Cosmere society, made up world-hopper's from a variety of Shardworlds. We know Iyatil has SoScad heritage but wasn't necessarily raised on Scadrial (rumoured to be Silverlight I think). Mraize is a little harder to guess. Of all their limited screen time, we've yet to see any of their behaviour link to Odium's doing; after all, they find out Shallan is a Radiant and yet don't kill her

[+Wax he/him]

The thing is Mraize has violet eyes?

 

[Calderis he/him]

4 hours ago, axcellence said:

The thing is Mraize has violet eyes?

 

So do Jasnah and Navani. So? 

Edited September 3, 2017 by Calderis

[+Wax he/him]

5 hours ago, Calderis said:

So do Jasnah and Navani. So? 

Well - i was wondering if south scads had violet eyes??

 

[+Spicker]

@ParadoxicalZen Those are the very reasons that I am not all on board with the theory. I don't get the feeling that most of the people we have met in the Ghostbloods are under the influence of Odium. And, Shallan's Dad was clearly affected by Odium before his involvement with the Ghostbloods, and his anger and temperament issues could be explained by other things. I am just merely stating that there is a clear worsening in his treatment of others after he joined with them that feels very sudden. This might have nothing to do with the Ghostbloods themselves, but there is definitely correlation in my reading of it (which of course does not equal causation). It could be somehow related to using the soulcaster for all I know.
Also, when is Elhokar's eyes described as being red? I must have missed that in my reread. I remember characters noticing unwarranted suspicion in his eyes, which I suppose could also be an influence of Odium, but I don't remember thinking it was similar to Shallan's Dad. I guess I just always interpreted the King's suspicion and temperament as a character flaw, since it didn't seem out of character for him from the others' perspective. Of course I could be wrong.
 

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

@Spicker it wasn't so much as red eyes, but I seem to recall in book one of the characters mention a hateful look (not paranoid/suspicious) in his eyes at one point, which is why I found it suspect. I'll need to search the books again, because i it did find strange, as I was reminded of Papa Davar's behaviour when I read it. It may have been when Elhokar and Dalinar were speaking at one time

[Ansalem]

5 hours ago, ParadoxicalZen said:

@Spicker it wasn't so much as red eyes, but I seem to recall in book one of the characters mention a hateful look (not paranoid/suspicious) in his eyes at one point, which is why I found it suspect. I'll need to search the books again, because i it did find strange, as I was reminded of Papa Davar's behaviour when I read it. It may have been when Elhokar and Dalinar were speaking at one time

There was one time, I think from Adolin's PoV, when Elhokar looked like he was suspicious of him and Dalinar. Adolin started to mention it to Dalinar afterward and Dalinar cut him off saying he would speak to Elhokar about it. Then another time from Dalinar's PoV when he was talking to Elhokar, the King flashed another suspicious look at Dalinar and Dalinar thought that the King was getting worse.

 

I can't remember specifically where those two things happened. I'm pretty sure the first time was right after the chasmfiend hunt when Elhokar was asking about the strap or it might have been when they were reporting back about the strap a little later. The second one I'm not sure about. The scene sticks out pretty clearly in my mind but I can't place what larger scene it was a part of. I do think the King and Dalinar were alone then, though.

 

But it did definitely happen at least twice.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Ansalem

[KidWayne he/him]

OK, I had to bring this up after reading this comment:

I really like this guess about the Ghostbloods being behind the copycat murder with a motivation to blackmail Shallan. It seems so un-radiant that it really makes me think that the Ghostbloods and Odium are buds.