Moogle Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 Would you say Loki has moral authority? Why would being a god grant you moral authority? (Looking at Zeus here, for starters.)
Quazar87 Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 We should keep in mind that it was NOT his realization of Ruin's manipulation of religion and legend that suddenly turned Sazed into an atheist. It was Tindwyl's death and his inability to find comfort in any of his accumulated faiths. Their rituals and principles held nothing for him. That's what Sazed sought from faith. Not knowledge of powerful extra-Scadrial beings, but comfort in hoping and believing. You can't hope in Ruin. There's no comfort there. As to the definition of a deity... would you say that Star Trek's Q are gods, Moogle? Do you find the captains of starfleet incomprehensible when they refuse to worship them? 2
Moogle Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 As to the definition of a deity... would you say that Star Trek's Q are gods, Moogle? Do you find the captains of starfleet incomprehensible when they refuse to worship them? Just because something is a god does not mean you need to worship it. The Q are more powerful than deities that were worshiped in real life (the Greek pantheon is low-power, all things considered), so I would tentatively say they could be considered deities. I am still looking for a reasonable definition of what that even means, however. So far, I have not been satisfied by any of the definitions given in this thread. I suspect the term 'god' or 'deity' may be so subjective as to be pointless to discuss, much like discussing what a 'good' film is. Of note: Mormon doctrine, I believe, is that you become god of your own universe (or planet?) when you die if you're in good standing with the church. So strictly speaking, I don't even know if you can say that aliens can't be gods or deities because we have a real world example of exactly that.
Swimmingly he/him Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) Why would being a god grant you moral authority? (Looking at Zeus here, for starters.) And that's why I wouldn't consider Ruin, Loki, or Sazed a god in the sense of one who has moral authority. Edited February 27, 2014 by Swimmingly
king of nowhere Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 It's funny, and a topic of discussion for another thread I think, but while I was initially sad about the possibility of Jasnah dying, I find that I don't care anymore except a mild twinge of "oh darn now I can't read about her being awesome anymore". The Cosmere has an afterlife. Why be sad about characters dying? I'm curious as to how this will affect my reading of Words of Radiance, because a character is probably going to die at some point in it. Because we won't read about them anymore. And because their friends will miss them. Now, back on topic, I think you guys are arguing over different definitions of what a "god" is. IF we go by the concept most diffused in the western world, of a god omnipotent and all encompassing, then the shards definitely do NOT qualify. Neither did the greek pantheon. If you go on the easter concept of a venerable supernatural entity (as far as I understand it; I'm not an expert on the field) then they definitely are. so are the greek pantheon, and maybe even sentient spren like syl. Me, I would veer toward naytheism: those are extremely powerful beings, they are something I cannot explain with science (yet!), I can fear their power and respect their wisdom, but I wouldn't see them as "holy". Being a shard in particular carries no moral autority, except for a better capability of predicting the consequences of an action (which is important to decide if it is wrong or not). If ruin was a god in the stricter definition, then his desire of destroying the world would be moral and it would be wrong to oppose it. Actually, thinking about that, I don't think I'd accept anything as god under that definition. I just cannot accept the idea that something is right or wrong because someone says so without further explanation. I could accept a statement like "doing that will have all kind of consequences that are too complicated to explain, but my superior mind could come to the conclusion that in one hundred years people will suffer for it", but not "I declare this thing unholy because I don't like it". So, to me ruin is not a god. it's just a very powerful being who created life on earth and could snuff it out in moments. If an extremely advanced alien race had created life on earth, could see anywhere with spy satellites, and could snuff us out in moments with some weapon of mass destruction, I'd definitely not see them as gods. I have imagined sci-fi stories with civilization more powerful than ruin, and they certainly were no gods (although they could have easily convinced us that they were, if nothing else by rewriting all of our brains) Back to sazed, yes, he wasn't rational in that book. for example, he dismissed the terris religion as filled with clichè, not recognizing that it actually explained everything - what was the thing in the well of ascension, what was happening in the world, and especially why the believers were not blessed. Sazed was going through a bad time, you have to forgive him.
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