The herelds in the prolouge

[Passion he/him]

Hi this is my first post so here goes.

i recently reread the prologue to way of kings to see what I noticed. Here are the things I only just picked up on:

-it seems jezrien as king of the herelds was not based on his position as a herelds but on his preheraldic life there he was a king and so he brought his regal attitude into his life as a hereld

-this tells he and the herelds had some sort of regular life beforehand and some event caused the creation of the oathpact

-Based on the amount of times Brandon had to explain to questioners the oathpact was between honor and herelds not odium it seems I wasn't the only one who was confused how their agreement with honor gets them repetitively sent to idioms tirture.clise reading leads me to only one conclusion the oathpact must be about their commitment to honor to repetively engage in fight on behalf of all mankind which in and of itself gives odium some hold over them

-they gain out of the oathpact some sort of vague minute chance of victory that they have never acheived. When they our leaving the iathpact when jezrien tries to claim as long as tank is still there it will hold he is saying they are not forfeiting that chance completely even though both he and kalak don't really believe tank alone can do what they all together could not

-based on this when jezrien says who knows maybe it will turn out to be true(about the lie they will tell mankind about victory) he is saying that not as a product of their attempt to break the iathpact but as an excuse they will give for just leaving. They will say they win

-this that there is even a need to lie tells me the people know something if the oathpact so there is a need to rationalize to them why they are not returning to purgotory

so what do you guys think an I reading this right

 

-oh one last favorite theory of mine.it is crystal clear to me that when adolin makes reference to the ironclad traditions in risharof duals and the rights of the champions to make binding demands that these traditions are based on that cryptic reference honor naked to their ability to get odium to pick a champion and then be bound by the tesults

love it or hate it?

[Everstorm Entropy he/him]

I like the way of thinking, and there are some good theories here.  I don't know if there is enough to support it just yet.

The Oathpact was definitely made between Honor and the Heralds; not Odium.  All that we know is that this pact kept (keeps?) Odium bound.  Why it required them to be tortured in Damnation between Desolations is still unclear.  There are some hints and WoB that imply (but don't confirm) that the Desolations come when the Heralds "break" under torture, hence why the appearance of the Heralds is a sign of the coming Desolation.  Also, Talenel (Taln) was the Herald for the Stonewards and was known to be an extremely stubborn man.  It's likely that Roshar has gone so long without a Desolation because of his near-unbreakable will and ability to resist torture for so long.

My personal prediction is that Odium is pure hatred and needs something to take that hatred out on.  Think of a hose that is always filling a pool.  The hatred is constantly pouring out from Odium, and the Heralds serve as buckets to try and keep that pool from overflowing for as long as possible.  Eventually, however, they relinquish, no longer able to take the torture, and therefore, no longer diverting Odium's hatred.  Now that there is nothing to stop the pool from filling up, it eventually overflows and begins to seek other "pools" to fill (i.e. the rest of the Cosmere).  Since Roshar is on the neighboring planet next to Braize, it makes sense that they exist as the first line of defense for the Cosmere against Odium and why Honor has persisted in keeping Odium at bay and trapped on Braize.

[Passion he/him]

Just curious what do you think of my last theory...the one about the connection between the concept of champion in adolins duals and the concept of a champion in the battle with odium?

[Nathrangking he/him]

I think that it may in fact be spot on the idea of picking a champion could have multiple facets a practical you can't directly battle a shard as a mortal being. Connected to this may well be the idea that once champions are picked by both sides for reasons unknown both sides conceivable could be bound to this 1 on 1 showdown.

[djammmer]

If the oath pact was not made with odium, why does it bind him?

[Nathrangking he/him]

I would tend to agree with that sentiment. He is not bound by it at all so far as we know.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

23 hours ago, djammmer said:

If the oath pact was not made with odium, why does it bind him?

23 hours ago, Nathrangking said:

I would tend to agree with that sentiment. He is not bound by it at all so far as we know.

It's only indirectly related.

Quote

Question

Is the fact that Odium can't leave Roshar a direct result of the Oathpact, or something else?

Brandon Sanderson

Not a direct result of the Oathpact, but the Oathpact was part of it.

It seems like him being bound is a side effect of something that the Pact does, rather than the purpose of the Pact itself.

[Passion he/him]

Why is everyone only focusing on whether the oathpact keeps odium in roshar. He is clearly somehow involved/affected/some other undefined connection as is born out  by what we see that the oathpact sends the herelds to his torture. I am seriously perplexed how a deal between honor and herelds includes that!?!!!!!???????

[Calderis he/him]

On 8/1/2017 at 5:29 PM, Passion said:

Why is everyone only focusing on whether the oathpact keeps odium in roshar. He is clearly somehow involved/affected/some other undefined connection as is born out  by what we see that the oathpact sends the herelds to his torture. I am seriously perplexed how a deal between honor and herelds includes that!?!!!!!???????

Because we don't know. We can speculate and that's it. 

@Extesian has a theory that the Oathpact actually started between Honor and the Heralds on Braize before they were "pushed out of the Tranquiline Halls" 

It's a compelling idea. When Navani is talking with Dalinar about the desolations, she mentions that they were a continuation of the wars that pushed mankind "and the Heralds" out of the Tranquiline Halls to Roshar. 

It's the only theory I've seen address this. The problem is that we don't know enough about history or the Oathpact to know anything beyond the guesses here. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Calderis

[Passion he/him]

Well I think it's not that they are bound odium but that they voluntair to do it as part of their pact with honor. I see it as part of the battle with odium that by going to his hell they gain something and they agree to send themselves there(or if they die they empower honor/somebody for them). Since they themselves accepted it as part of the pact when it gets to difficult they try to take back their commitment to honor that are breaking the oact

 

so at the risk of being repetitive the main point of my theory is they do it to themselves because it nets them something in their fight with odium

i personally keep on waffling whether I think it nets them something in the actual fight(a chance at odium) or just helps mankind by delaying desolations

oh and by the way I kind of meant all this in my original post but tried to hard to keep it short. That and I worded it badly

[Passion he/him]

Response anybody am I way off,right,or just dealing with to little known facts

?!?