Bronze detecting hemalurgy

[Steeldancer he/him]

Ok so bronze makes it easy to detect allomancy because it is an end-positive system. It can detect other magic systems (most of which I think are end positive.) It struggles to detect feruchemy, because it's all internal and end-neutral. 

My question is, what does a seeker detect from a hemalurgist? A... reverse pulse? Like something pulling in? 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

14 minutes ago, The Flash said:

My question is, what does a seeker detect from a Hemalurgist?

You've unknowingly made an assumption, and it's a dun sphere. Hemalurgy doesn't have "powers" in the way the others do.

A Seeker would sense the same thing from a Steel Inquisitor as they would from a natural Mistborn. The Inquisitor steelpushes, Seeker detects Steel. Mistborn steelpushes, Seeker detects steel.

The Spikes are passive. They give you access to a power, but they aren't actually doing anything. It's like Medallions. You could sense someone who was using a Medallion for Allomancy, but it would "sound" like Allomancy, because that is the power being used.

Kandra and Koloss didn't give off Bronze-pulses, so i don't think the human attributes would either.

Edited July 16, 2017 by The One Who Connects

[Steeldancer he/him]

1 minute ago, The One Who Connects said:

You've unknowingly made an assumption, and it's a bad one. Hemalurgy doesn't have "powers" in the way the others do.

A Seeker would sense the same thing from a Steel Inquisitor as they would from a natural Mistborn. The Inquisitor steelpushes, Seeker detects Steel. Mistborn steelpushes, Seeker detects steel.

The Spikes are passive. They give you access to a power, but they aren't actually doing anything. It's like Medallions. You could sense someone who was using a Medallion for Allomancy, but it would "sound" like Allomancy, because that is the power being used.

Kandra and Koloss didn't give off Bronze-pulses, so i don't think the human attributes would either.

Ok then... I guess the real question I was asking is can bronze detect an end-negative magic system. I did assume that there would be something going on there. 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

Just now, The Flash said:

Ok then... I guess the real question I was asking is can bronze detect an end-negative magic system. I did assume that there would be something going on there. 

I think it'll have a similar issue to Feruchemy. With Hemalurgy, the only time power is actively moving is the moments of Spiking. So even if you were close enough to hear it, it'd be a momentary pop of some sort, and nothing more.

I'd liken hearing Hemalurgy via Bronze Pulses to hearing a twig snap while walking in the forest. You know it happened, but you have the bare minimum of context clues to go on.

[Spoolofwhool]

12 minutes ago, The Flash said:

A... reverse pulse? Like something pulling in? 

I'll point out that bronze allomancy already does feel pulling pulses. That's how the pulling metal were categorized, because they're pulses feel like they're pulling. 

3 minutes ago, The Flash said:

Ok then... I guess the real question I was asking is can bronze detect an end-negative magic system. I did assume that there would be something going on there. 

In my opinion, bronze detects usages of investiture. How the system works probably doesn't matter as long as there's a transfer, though some systems, like feruchemy, are probably are lot more subtle in their usage, and therefore harder to detect. If another manifestation of investiture which has been classified as end-negative deals with the usage, it should be detectable. The seeker would probably just feel a different set of pulses. 

[Steeldancer he/him]

Hm. So maybe, if it just sensed investiture, it can detect the "leakage" from a spike? 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

1 minute ago, The Flash said:

Hm. So maybe, if it just sensed investiture, it can detect the "leakage" from a spike? 

Hadn't considered that one before. hrmm... It might be able to do that, but I feel that the amount leaking out at any given time is paltry enough to be undetectable without being very close(one of the main issues with detecting Feruchemy was the low amount of power). Not to mention that it stops leaking when covered in blood or in the body.

However, it could make detecting H-spike granted Feruchemy easier to detect, as the decay from Hemalurgy makes Feruchemy a "leaky tube." That leaking combined with normal storing might make it just a little bit louder. Clever. have an upvote

[Calderis he/him]

As has already been stated, I think Bronze is all about active investiture use. Due to sheer magnitude, end positive systems should be more easily detectable. 

With all the metalmind hacking we're beginning to see in the end of Era 2, I'm guess that compounding will become more common, and that we'll probably see pulse patterns for Feruchemy as a sign of compounding. 

My real question though, we know that normal Feruchemy can be detected, but what about Awakening? Would it only be detected at moments that breath is transferred? Would an Awakened object acting due to its command give off a pulse? If yes, why? 

As far as end negative goes... We know how Hemalurgy works and If it is ever Detectable it would have to be at either the moment of theft or implantation. We also know there's at least one other end negative system... But if it's at all similar, I think it will be just as difficult. 

[Oversleep]

Bronze detects Kinetic Investiture. Which means - probably - active flow of Investiture. You can't detect metalmind or a spike or Returned because power just sits there.

[+Extesian he/him]

A couple of thoughts. WoBs below but the posts so far are right. Feruchemy can be detected but it's hard. Seeking is about kinetic investiture but includes strange things like the Rhythms. 

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Q: Is the reason why Allomancy creates allomantic pulses visible to Seekers because it is an external magic drawing upon Preservation's power? In other words, is the reason why Feruchemy is much, much harder to detect by burning bronze because it is an internal magic?
 
A: Yes.

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Q: Bronze has always been my favorite allomantic metal. Could a Seeker learn to sense familiar pulses? Could Marsh, for example, have felt the bronzepulses of pewter, and been able to tell the difference between some Thug he'd never met and his friend Ham? Or is pewter is pewter is pewter?
 
A: If he recognized something about the burning, it would have to be in the personal way someone was burning the metal. However, Bronze is capable of sensing other types of investiture. Expand from that as you wish.

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Someone asked Brandon about Allomantic bronze detecting Feruchemy.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Brandon responded with yes, but no one on Scadrial knows how to do this (at least now). The interesting thing is that Brandon said that Allomantic bronzecould theoretically detect any "Kinetic Investiture". Note that I am capitalizing Kinetic there, as Innate Investiture was. Pretty awesome to get that new term. I am assuming it is the difference between a metalmind being Invested and actually using Feruchemy, or a person having a lot of Breath and someone actually Awakening.

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AETHENOTH

Can an allomantic bronze burner hear the rhythms on Roshar?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, this is possible.

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BRANDON SANDERSON

If you were really good at burning bronze, you could distinguish between different types of Investiture from different planets even. And that sort of skill does exist in other magic systems.

ARGENT

Is it like a wavelength kind of thing?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yea, that's exactly what it is.

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BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

We asked if it was possible to use bronze to Seek Feruchemy. He said it could be possible. If it were to happen, it was very hard, because the Inquisitors would desperately like to be able to find Feruchemists that way, and it was implied they had not discovered this power. So, it is a freaking hard technique to learn, if possible at all.