The order of Odiums shardsplitting spree?

[Toaster Retribution]

We know that Odium tries to splinter every Shard he can find, and we also know that he took out Ambition first, and then headed to Sel to take out Dominion and Devotion, before finally going to Roshar in order to take down Honor (and presumably Cultivation). 

So, why did he do everything in this specific order? Why not go after someone like Ruin early, who seems pretty dangerous. 

[Calderis]

He tried to get ambition first but couldn't find him until after hitting Sel. 

Ambition was first on his hit list I think, because the nature of Ambition lends itself to trying to achieve more power, and Odium didn't want something like Harmony to happen. 

I think he ignored Preservation and Ruin both, because neither intent leans towards additional power. Preservation just wants things to remain the same, and Ruin would be more interested in shattering shards, making Odium's work easier, than becoming stronger. 

Edited July 11, 2017 by Calderis

[Toaster Retribution]

18 minutes ago, Calderis said:

He tried to get ambition first but couldn't find him until after hitting Sel. 

Huh, I didnt know this. Is it from a WoB?

18 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I think he ignored Preservation and Ruin both, because neither intent leans towards additional power. Preservation just wants things to remain the same, and Ruin would be more interested in shattering shards, making Odium's work easier, than becoming stronger. 

Ruin could have been interested in shattering Odium though, and is therefore a risk to have around. And then, what is so dangerous about Honor and Cultivation?

[Calderis]

33 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Ruin could have been interested in shattering Odium though, and is therefore a risk to have around. And then, what is so dangerous about Honor and Cultivation?

Yes, Ruin could have eventually become a threat, but his intent was initially tempered by the timid and kind Ati, so I think Ray's went elsewhere first because he just didn't see him as a threat. I think he saw Ambition as a threat due to competition, and then he seemed to be targeting dual shard worlds in an attempt to prevent a Harmony situation. 

I don't know see why he went to Roshar next, but I feel like if he'd succeeded there, Scadrial would have been next, due to it being a multi-shard world. 

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

18 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I don't know see why he went to Roshar next, but I feel like if he'd succeeded there, Scadrial would have been next, due to it being a multi-shard world. 

I think it might have been Cultivation. I could see Cultivation being a shard that would try to grow power, maybe finding ways to increase Investiture, or otherwise threaten Odium. Also, lets keep in mind that while Ruin and Preservation were enemies, Honor and Cultivation were lovers (at least, I think I remember a WoB saying that). It would seem much more likely for Honor and Cultivation to become a dual-shard than for Ruin and Preservation to do so. I think that Odium may have gone after Cultivation, but Honor (oh, dear honorable Honor) stepped in to protect her, sacrificing himself to keep Odium contained. Or something similar.

Point is, the nature of the relationship between Honor and Cultivation, as well as their Intents would make it more likely (if still unlikely) for them to merge than Ruin and Preservation (which seemed extremely unlikely). I mean, who could see Preservation killing Ruin? And Ruin would be more likely to Splinter Preservation than take it up. The only way you'd get those two together is if both died and a third party took them up (which is what happened).

So, to recap. Odium went after Ambition first (no duh, biggest threat), then the dual shard worlds. He started with Devotion and Dominion, because Dominion is also a threat, and I could see Dominion exercising power over Devotion. Plus, unlike Ruin, Dominion would take up the power instead of splintering it. Then he went after Honor/Cultivation, because they might willfully join, and left Ruin/Preservation for last as they seemed the least likely to unite.

[The One Who Connects]

6 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

So, why did he do everything in this specific order? Why not go after someone like Ruin early, who seems pretty dangerous. 

There's the obvious "double shard's are a problem" motivations, but I'll ignore that for the time being.

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• Ambition was the number one target, because pure ambition makes one reckless and unpredictable. Not someone Odium wants to deal with.
• Dominion could be construed in such a way as to want control. Odium dislikes being controlled, and would only work with another Shard if he were in charge.
• Devotion, on the extreme end, breeds fanatics and zealots. A fanatical Shard is just as bad as our friend Ambition, because the warped perceptions make them unpredictable. And if Dominion got control of Devotion, and tried to 2 v 1 other Shards... Odium likes to plan ahead, and he wouldn't want this.
• Honor is certainly the one to go "face me!" and/or hunt Odium down. Likely why he died first.
• Maelstrom summed up Cultivation quite well. Someone who has "cultivated" oneself, removing any unnecessary qualities, would be quite dangerous. And if they could do this to Honor too...

Ruin and Preservation were ignored because they were such opposites. They wouldn't be able to be a legitimate threat because they couldn't work together like D&D could. The fact that Harmony can still hardly get things done proves this. Additionally, I cannot even remotely express that attacking R&P would be a really, really bad idea.

• Killing Preservation opens Odium up to attack by Ruin, who would absolutely want to "ruin" him. Odium is still recovering, and gets destroyed.
• If he goes after Ruin first, Preservation can use his power to "preserve" Ruin, giving him the strength to go toe-to-toe with and destroy Odium. While Ruin is recovering, Preservation betrays him just like he did in the Terris Prophecies.

Endowment was almost certainly ignored because they were a single Shard. If she had another Shard to "endow" their power to, Odium would have a bad day.
I cannot speak to Autonomy, because reasons(*and confusion).

[+Extesian]

Here's an interesting one to throw into the mix

Quote

Q: Odium has, as far as I understand it, something like the meaning of God's devine wrath. HHow is wrath on its own able to cause such terrible destruction? He primarily attacked (not counting him in) dishardic worlds (Sel, Roshar). Could he have sowed discord between the Shards there to an extent of them fighting against each other?
A: That is a good theory. That he got them to fighting each other. I won't tell you wether it happened or not, but it is a very well theory. It's fully within his capacity. That's a sort of thing that he does.

 

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

2 hours ago, Extesian said:

Here's an interesting one to throw into the mix

Quote

Q: Odium has, as far as I understand it, something like the meaning of God's devine wrath. HHow is wrath on its own able to cause such terrible destruction? He primarily attacked (not counting him in) dishardic worlds (Sel, Roshar). Could he have sowed discord between the Shards there to an extent of them fighting against each other?
A: That is a good theory. That he got them to fighting each other. I won't tell you wether it happened or not, but it is a very well theory. It's fully within his capacity. That's a sort of thing that he does.

 

You know, that's really interesting. So, if Odium got D&D to fight each other, without their knowing it was him, he could ambush them when they are weakened and splinter them both that way. I don't really see that happening with Cultivation and Honor though. Their relationship seems like it might, but probably wouldn't lead to all out fighting. If you add in that the result was a splintered Honor, a weakened Odium, and (as far as we know) unscathed Cultivation, then what might have happened is Odium trying the same trick, but both H&C catching on, then using it to ambush Odium, with Honor taking point like a good honorable guy. And this would explain why he didn't go for Preservation and Ruin, since they already hate each other, already fight each other, but are at an impasse. Plus all the stuff @The One Who Connects said about Preservation and Ruin.

[Toaster Retribution]

6 hours ago, Lord Maelstrom said:

(as far as we know) unscathed Cultivation, 

I doubt she is unscathed tbh. If Odium is weakened, and she is not, there wouldn't really be a good reason for her not to finish him off.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Toaster Retribution

[The One Who Connects]

12 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I doubt she is unscathed tbh. If Odium is weakened, and she is not, there wouldn't really be a good reason for her not to finish him off.

She helped Honor in some way. That expended power plus what she has tied up in the Rosharan System could easily be enough for her to think she is just as weak as Odium. Combine that with the grief from her SO dying affecting her judgement, and it seems reasonable that she didn't try to kill him then and there.

[+Extesian]

We know Cultivation remains very powerful. 

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Q: Are things that are written by scholars on Roshar suspect? In Mistborn, Ruin could change anything that was written down, so can Odium do the same? Are written words on Roshar: untrustworthy, trustworthy because that ability was somehow limited to Ruin, or trustworthy because Odium COULD do it but just won't because it's not his style/he doesn't consider it?
 
A: Odium didn't have a hand in creating Roshar, and his essence doesn't permeate it in the same way as Ruin permeated Scadrial. This gave Ruin a great deal more power over things like this--except when he ran into metals, of course. Another difference is that Odium has a fully-living, fully-aware, and very powerful Shard opposing him. (Contrasted to one that was half-dead and going mad.) So yes, you can trust much of what was written. Odium can be subtle when he needs to be, but his primary avenue of attack has been along a different line than the one Ruin used.

Frost also believes that containing Odium is enough so my guess is Cultivation didn't see the need to destroy him immediately or simply wasn't strong enough for that. 

But more than that I think most Vessels don't actually know how to splinter a Shard. 

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Q: Is Odium's method of smothering shards inspired at all by the way Adonalsium was originally shattered? Or of his own devising?
 
A: It is not obvious to other Shards. But there are relationships.