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Mod Note: Split off at Oversleep's request from this thread.

Recent discussion inspired me to make a thread about Inquisitor builds.
So, what do we know about spikes of Inquisitors? Keep in mind we're talking about Final Empire Era Inquisitors, not rampaging Ruin Inquisitors.

They are said to be stronger in Allomantic steel and Allomantic iron than regular Allomancers. I assume they have at least two spikes for each.
They do not really need spikes for Allomantic gold and they are said to usually have between 9 and 11 spikes. Assuming they are Allomancers to begin with (and no reason to turn non-Allomancer into Inquisitor):

Feruchemical gold (not all of them had that due to trouble with finding Feruchemists)
Allomantic:
pewter
tin
double bronze
double steel
double iron
atium (not all of them had that though)

That's 9 spikes (one power the Allomancer was born with). We have still two spikes to spare (if we're doing the upper limit of 11 spikes and assume they have Feruchemical gold and Allomantic atium). What else? The Inquisitor Kelsier fought had access to emotional Allomancy.

Edited by Oversleep
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2 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

What else?

A few had A-Duralumin per the Annotations.

As a side note, I don't think they all had F-Gold, due to the issue with finding Feruchemists. Additionally, there is a line in HoA when Vin first sees Marsh in his full 22 spiked glory:

Quote

Normal Inquisitors had nine spikes. The one she'd killed with Elend had ten. Marsh appeared to have upwards of twenty. He growled softly.

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14 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

A few had A-Duralumin per the Annotations.

As a side note, I don't think they all had F-Gold, due to the issue with finding Feruchemists. Additionally, there is a line in HoA when Vin first sees Marsh in his full 22 spiked glory:

Merciful Austre! That dude's spiritweb must be a total dumpster fire.

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5 hours ago, Storming Radiant said:

Some had F-steel, if I remember correctly.

That was after Ruin started to upgrade them.

I'm talking TLR's Inquisitors, everything that was added later is of no interest to me, as Ruin was spiking left and right.

10 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

As a side note, I don't think they all had F-Gold, due to the issue with finding Feruchemists.

Yeah, probably. But I think that's reasonable assumption that most of them did. Probably more had Feruchemical gold than Allomantic atium.

I'm talking about average setup. Some probably had spikes for emotional Allomancy to be able to control koloss (IIRC TLR did use them that way?) but I think that's a specialized build. Probably those with Allomantic duralumin spikes had also a spike for emotional Allomancy to be able to take control of koloss faster.

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46 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

IIRC TLR did use them that way?

Yep. Annotations x2.

Quote

Human is a very special Koloss. He’s quite a bit older than most, his creation running all the way back to before the Lord Ruler’s death. He was originally the leader of a rebellion out in the southeast—the same area where Clubs spent his youth fighting. Human, then known as Vershad,  [...]  The Lord Ruler tired of such games and eventually sent his Koloss against Vershad and his men. As clever as they were, they weren’t able to stand against a well-laid betrayal and ambush set by an Inquisitor—one who controlled a troop of Koloss. The raiders were slaughtered, and Vershad himself was turned into a Koloss for his crimes.


49 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Probably those with Allomantic duralumin spikes had also a spike for emotional Allomancy to be able to take control of Koloss faster.

They'd need the Riot/Soothe Spike to take control in the first place, so the Duralumin was probably the "also," but I agree with this sentiment.

52 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

I'm talking about average setup. [..] but I think that's a specialized build.

I like the idea of specialization among them, but if they did have that, then maybe your average setup model should only have 6-7, allowing all of them to be minorly specialized. That way they could have the last 2-3 spikes be specialization specific.

A combat model would get a second A-Steel and an A-Atium. A Koloss Handler gets A-Duralumin and A-Brass/Zinc(probably Brass to forcibly soothe a skaa rebellion, but..), etc.. F-Gold would be more standardized, but not everyone, so some could have a third specialization spike.

Granted, they could have a complete default setup and just replace some of them when making the Inquisitor.

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4 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

They'd need the Riot/Soothe Spike to take control in the first place, so the Duralumin was probably the "also," but I agree with this sentiment.

Yeah, unclear wording. I meant that if anybody was to have Allomantic duralumin spike, it probably were those with emotional Allomancy.

Edited by Oversleep
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It was said that the inquisitors were usually made from seekers or mistborns. That way only one spike granting bronze allomancy was necessary for them to have the power to pierce copperclouds. Also, some relevant information from the epigraphs.

Quote
In Hemalurgy, the type of metal used in a spike is important, as is the positioning of that spike on the body. For instance, steel spikes take physical Allomantic powers—the ability to burn pewter, tin, steel, or iron—and bestow them upon the person receiving the spike. Which of these four is granted, however, depends on where the spike is placed.

Spikes made from other metals steal Feruchemical abilities. For example, all of the original Inquisitors were given a pewter spike, which—after first being pounded through the body of a Feruchemist—gave the Inquisitor the ability to store up healing power. (Though they couldn't do so as quickly as a real Feruchemist, as per the law of Hemalurgic decay.) This, obviously, is where the Inquisitors got their infamous ability to recover from wounds quickly, and was also why they needed to rest so much.

- Hero of Ages, Chapter 36

Quote

Hemalurgic decay was less obvious in Inquisitors that had been created from Mistborn. Since they already had Allomantic powers, the addition of other abilities made them awesomely strong.

In most cases, however, Inquisitors were created from Mistings. It appears that Seekers, like Marsh, were the favored recruits. For, when a Mistborn wasn't available, an Inquisitor with enhanced bronze abilities was a powerful tool for searching out skaa Mistings.

- Hero of Ages, Chapter 37

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Maybe I remember wrong but I as far as I remember Inquisitors had usually one spike for power. The Legends about Inquisitors's superior power were born by the Mistborn-born ones and their roughtly double power (a little below the Lerasium Mistborn)

We saw noone (except Rashek) with a Allomantic Power beyond a Lerasium Mistborn. If the Inquisitor's Spikes set was made of double Spikes there would be Inquisitor stronger than a Lerasium Mistborn in TFE

 

Edited by Yata
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3 hours ago, Yata said:

Maybe I remember wrong but I as far as I remember Inquisitors had usually one spike for power. The Legends about Inquisitors's superior power were born by the Mistborn-born ones and their roughtly double power (a little below the Lerasium Mistborn)

We saw noone (except Rashek) with a Allomantic Power beyond a Lerasium Mistborn. If the Inquisitor's Spikes set was made of double Spikes there would be Inquisitor stronger than a Lerasium Mistborn in TFE

 

TLR's original 16 Inquisitors were made before mistings were common; in fact, for several generations after the ascension, mistings were virtually (completely?) unheard of, meaning he would almost certainly have made the first batch of Inquisitors out of mistborn who were nearly as powerful as lerasium-mistborn using spikes taken from mistborn who were nearly as powerful as lerasium-mistborn.  I'd posit that those first inquisitors probably had greater allomantic strength than is possible through lerasium; I'll grant you that we definitely didn't see them so we can't be totally sure, but it seems likely.

I think you're right that the inquisitors didn't normally bother with double spikes for most of the powers.  They were highly trained, war-hardened, veteran allomancers that lived unnaturally long lives (confirmed by WoB, and it's implied, if not confirmed, that Kaar lived >200 years).  Where normal allomancers were trained in stealth and subtlety, inquisitors were trained to wreck lives as graphically and gratuitously as possible; where a normal mistborn might duck, hide, and sneak, an inquisitor would have been more likely to tear down a building.

On 6/19/2017 at 8:25 PM, Oversleep said:


Allomantic:

tin

Are you sure they had allomantic tin?  They were blind and navigated by steelsight, which meant they could already "see" in total darkness and pierce the mists.  Enhanced hearing seems redundant when you can pierce copperclouds, and can actually be a weakness, and considering that their spikes caused them constant pain and discomfort, I would think that enhanced sense of touch would be extremely uncomfortable for them.  Taste and smell seem almost useless in a world covered in smoke and ash, at least in terms of hunting people in a city.

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4 hours ago, Yata said:

If the Inquisitor's Spikes set was made of double Spikes there would be Inquisitor stronger than a Lerasium Mistborn in TFE

I disagree, partly because I feel that the average Allomantic strength reduced more than that over the years, and partly because of specific wording(Nvm, WoB was about Duralumin, not Lerasium).

It just doesn't feel right to me that two 10th century spikes could match Lerasium(slightly above a 1st century spike). Actually, using the WoB mentioned above and your interpretation of how strong 2 spikes are, the first Inquisitor to gain a Duralumin spike would be nearly at TLR levels in whatever powers they had, and that doesn't seem like something TLR would allow.

Quote

BRANDON SANDERSON (paraphrased)

Brandon said that, obviously, the Lord Ruler wasn't using duralumin and Elend could only get that powerful in Soothing using duralumin.

Lerasium MB doing a Duralumin Soothing could match base TLR. If a double spike in 10th century could match a Lerasium MB, then a single spike in 4th or 5th century would be close to Lerasium by default, and adding Duralumin would nearly equate to Elend with Duralumin, which Brandon has said could match TLR. Given how much TLR hid from the world and his Inquisitors to keep his advantages, I don't think he would allow something that could challenge him.


Edit b/c you replied first:

3 minutes ago, hwiles said:

They were highly trained, war-hardened, veteran Allomancers that lived unnaturally long lives (confirmed by WoB, and it's implied, if not confirmed, that Kar lived >200 years).

The WoB said that some had long lives, some burnt out quickly. I agree about Kar being old, but they didn't automatically gain longevity by joining the Inquisition. In general they did, but not always.

Quote

Chaos

How long is the lifespan of an Inquisitor?

Brandon Sanderson

It depends on the powers they're given. Some burn up quickly, and others are extended. In general though they do tend to have slightly longer lives.

Edited by The One Who Connects
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8 hours ago, Yata said:

Maybe I remember wrong but I as far as I remember Inquisitors had usually one spike for power. The Legends about Inquisitors's superior power were born by the Mistborn-born ones and their roughtly double power (a little below the Lerasium Mistborn)

Sources?

8 hours ago, Yata said:

We saw noone (except Rashek) with a Allomantic Power beyond a Lerasium Mistborn. If the Inquisitor's Spikes set was made of double Spikes there would be Inquisitor stronger than a Lerasium Mistborn in TFE

...except Inquisitors (and Vin) could pierce copperclouds by default without much training, while Elend who was a Lerasium Mistborn could not (although he could learn to pierce copperclouds of weaker Allomancers). So yeah, they were.

4 hours ago, hwiles said:

TLR's original 16 Inquisitors were made before mistings were common; in fact, for several generations after the ascension, mistings were virtually (completely?) unheard of

I'm not sure whether it's from the books or WoBs but back then there were Mistings - regular Soothers/Rioters could take control of kandra. Unless you have a source for that.

4 hours ago, hwiles said:

I think you're right that the inquisitors didn't normally bother with double spikes for most of the powers.

Then please point out where my reasoning behind the usual 9-11 spikes is wrong.

4 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

It just doesn't feel right to me that two 10th century spikes could match Lerasium(slightly above a 1st century spike).

This.

Also, let's see what the body of the Inquisitor from the beginning of HoA can tell us:
10 spikes total. Three steel spikes (two eyes and one through shoulders). Six between ribs, two steel and four bronze. Pewter spike in the heart.
That adds up to 5 steel spikes and 4 bronze spikes which means 5 Allomantic Physical powers and 4 Allomantic Mental powers. Pewter spike gives Feruchemical physical powers and he displayed Feruchemical speed so that's accounted for.
He probably was a Misting to begin with, so that would be another power to add.

Of course, that's when Ruin was free but seeing as that Inquisitor had just 10 spikes I'd say that probably all were his original, pre-Ruin spikes. (I think most of the spikes Ruin made went into Marsh seeing as he had over 20 and he started with 11)

Anyway, that Inquisitor displayed Allomantic pewter, Allomantic steel and Allomantic iron; as Inquisitor he probably had double bronze; he didn't have aluminum spike so he couldn't burn duralumin so he had to have double Soothing or Rioting (I doubt one spike would be sufficient to kontrol koloss). That accounts for three of the steel spikes and all four bronze spikes which leaves us with four more powers (his own + three more steel spikes).
Which means he either had Allomantic tin and doubled two powers of the physical quadrant or doubled all three.
And still leaves us with question what his original Allomantic ability was.

Edited by Oversleep
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45 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

I'm not sure whether it's from the books or WoBs but back then there were Mistings - regular Soothers/Rioters could take control of kandra. Unless you have a source for that.

Just did a sweep of Mistborn but couldn't find the source I was looking for.  Anyhow, yes, mistings have always existed on Scadrial, but they were exceptionally rare prior to the TLR's ascension.  Following his ascension, I believe Sazed explains to Vin at one point that for at least a couple generations, all of the children of the lerasium-mistborn TLR created were also mistborn.  I believe he explains that the first mistings were regarded almost as unfortunate-cripples to be shunned by the rest of the nobility;

I can't find a quote backing this up at the moment, so you know, grain-of-salt and all that; I might be remembering it wrong.

Do you have a source saying regular soother and rioters could ever take control of a kandra by themselves?  I thought it was just strong mistborn, or teams of rioters/soothers.  It would be interesting if it was actually confirmed that a misting with access to only one metal could theoretically be more powerful in that metal than a "weak" mistborn.

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6 minutes ago, hwiles said:

that for at least a couple generations, all of the children of the lerasium-mistborn TLR created were also mistborn.  I believe he explains that the first mistings were regarded almost as unfortunate-cripples to be shunned by the rest of the nobility;

I don't remember them being regarded as cripples, but I do remember mention that the power was so strong and not diluted among non-metalborn that there were no mistings for the first couple generations.

8 minutes ago, hwiles said:

Do you have a source saying regular soother and rioters could ever take control of a kandra by themselves?  I thought it was just strong mistborn, or teams of rioters/soothers.  It would be interesting if it was actually confirmed that a misting with access to only one metal could theoretically be more powerful in that metal than a "weak" mistborn.

Coppermind has nothing besides what you remembered, but we've got a plethora of information that hasn't left Events and Signings and/or Reddit, so that's another grain of salt.

It wouldn't be all that surprising to me if a 2nd/3rd century Soother had stronger power than a 10th century Mistborn, because the power weakened over time. Unless of course the "stronger" spikes used by ancient Koloss made them harder to control than the "weaker" spikes on Koloss near Kelsier's time, making it a team of period accurate Soothers :). Hrmm.. that's another thing to ask Brandon about.

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In the Epigraphs.

Quote
It should be no surprise that Elend became such a powerful Allomancer. It is a well-documented fact—though that documentation wasn't available to most—that Allomancers were much stronger during the early days of the Final Empire.

In those days, an Allomancer didn't need duralumin to take control of a kandra or koloss. A simple Push or Pull on the emotions was enough. In fact, this ability was one of the main reasons that the kandra devised their Contracts with the humans—for, at that time, not only Mistborn, but Soothers and Rioters could take control of them at the merest of whims.

- Hero of Ages, Chapter 21

My interpretation of this has been that single soothers or rioters could take control of kandra by themselves.

Edited by Spoolofwhool
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We don't even know when TLR started to produce Inquisitors or if he managed to equip them with decayed spikes in the early days or how strong a "double Lerasium" Inquisitor would be in comparison with TLR. The Durallumin isn't real an indication of something

Edited by Yata
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