Ciridae Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 In chapter 17 of WoK Kaladin visits the apothecary to buy supplies for the bridgemen. A couple of words stood out to me that made me think the beginning of this chapter is foreshadowing that the apothecary could become another Lightweaver. Description of the shop, emphasis added: Quote "The wooden walls were draped with cloth glyphwards styled in cryptic patterns [...]" A little on the nose, but this could still be a coincidental use of the two words. A few lines down though: Quote "The windowless room was lit with bundles of of garnet spheres hanging from the corners." Garnet, the polestone associated with Shalash and the Lightweavers, and the color of Pattern's Shardblade-form glow. What an odd choice of stone to light a room with. And what is the chapter heading? A Bloody, Red Sun. Blood as in the essence that can be soulcast by using a garnet and the first essence Shallan ever Soulcasts. Then another minor name drop, maybe but hopefully not coincidental, right at the beginning of the chapter when the apothecary is being described: Quote "His face was as full of chasms as the Shattered Plains themselves, weaving out in a pattern from his deeply recessed eyes." Again, strong choice of words that we as readers should associate with Lightweavers. Finally if we look at the whole scene, what is the apothecary doing? He's disguising himself, changing his appearance. Not only that, he does it to lie to his customers, to trick them. And the show doesn't stop with him. His whole shop is an illusion designed to trick naive and superstitious customers into buying lovepotions and wards. At first I thought the man was already a Lightweaver, but Syl would have noticed something odd about him, and Pattern said he was the only one chosen by the Crypics to study humans. So I take this chapter as foreshadowing. With the desolation well on it's way I'm sure the spren will send more of their kind to bond and I'd be willing to bet the apothecary will be another Lightweaver. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 15 minutes ago, Ciridae said: At first I thought the man was already a Lightweaver, but Syl would have noticed something odd about him, and Pattern said he was the only one chosen by the Crypics to study humans. So I take this chapter as foreshadowing. With the desolation well on it's way I'm sure the spren will send more of their kind to bond and I'd be willing to bet the apothecary will be another Lightweaver I don't see anything to outright disprove your theory, though I personally it's reaching. I could very well be wrong. On the flip side, unless Syl noticed his Spren, he could already be a Lightweaver. Syl never noticed anything about Shallan after all. What I wanted to address, and I've seen multiple people bring this up so I'm not trying to single you out, is the idea that Pattern is alone. He may very well have been the first, and to his mind only, Cryptic sent. That was how long ago though? Shallan bonded him as a child, and after their bond regressed he's been essentially cut off from the rest of the Cryptics til now. In the years that have passed since, another may well have been sent, and Pattern would know nothing about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn he/him Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 I wish I could up vote this more than once. I love the reading of the text here and your attention to detail. I wonder if there are anymore side instances like this that have repeated "subconscious" references to other orders/essences/stones that could be found on a deep re-read? It might give us some insight into future developments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciridae Posted June 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 @Calderis That's a really good point, Syl was not as aware at that point as she was in WoR, and even then the only time she noticed anything was during the duel when she notices something strange, presumably Pattern, but never comments on it again to my knowledge. @Green Hoodie Mistborn Thank you The only other thing I can think of at the top of my head is that the amethysts in the water at the king's feast. I've seen people argue that Elhokar could be a Willshaper being unreliable and such, but I think that one is really stretching it, I don't think that actually counts. But I'm sure there are other casual mentions of stones or essences hiding in plain sight around some minor characters that could foreshadow their role in future books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Ciridae said: I've seen people argue that Elhokar could be a Willshaper being unreliable and such, but I think that one is really stretching it, I don't think that actually counts. I didn't think my baseless theory time post on him being a Willshaper had to "stretch it." Off the top of my head, I also can't think of anyone else who's made that idea, so I'm halfway curious if you've seen others. They might be an interesting read edit: oh, there's one from 2015. No wonder I missed it. Interestingly enough, his theory brought up nothing that I brought up in mine. They are almost entirely different, yet have the same conclusion... Edited June 6, 2017 by The One Who Connects 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan he/him Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Perhaps if Brandon recognized the depths to which we go to draw conclusions he would either tell us everything or refuse to ever speak to anyone on this site again haha. +1 for the theory; I hope you are right. +10 if this is a meta-ironic post trolling the rest of the 17th Shard for the obsessive way they over-analyze every single thing Brandon says or writes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal she/her Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Brandon did say Kaladin has met two Lightweavers. There has been a debate as to whom was the second one. Maybe this is it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegatorgirl00 she/her Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, maxal said: Brandon did say Kaladin has met two Lightweavers. There has been a debate as to whom was the second one. Maybe this is it. Where is this from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 I'd like to see this "two Lightweavers" WoB as well. If it's true though. My votes for Tien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal she/her Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just now, thegatorgirl00 said: Where is this from? Oh.... An old WoB... I'll try to locate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal she/her Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just now, Calderis said: I'd like to see this "two Lightweavers" WoB as well. If it's true though. My votes for Tien. It was the discussion back in the time. I don't personally support it because Tien being a Radiant makes his death less plausible as Radiants can heal themselves, even novices. I honestly never thought there was much evidence to support it apart from Tien carving a horse and cheering up Kaladin, but this is tenuous at best. I like this theory better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal she/her Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Alright. Here it is: In March 2014, Brandon said: Quote QUESTION Have we seen another Lightweaver as of WoR? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes, depending on your definition. You could make the argument, the Order of Knight Radiant, no. But you have seen people lightweaving, the skill, yes. At the September 2014 SLC Comic Con, someone asked Brandon for a tip bits about Kaladin into her book signing and got: "Kaladin has known two Lightweavers." I feel it isn't terribly conclusive and somewhat contradictory Edited June 7, 2017 by maxal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian he/him Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, maxal said: Alright. Here it is: In March 2014, Brandon said: At the September 2014 SLC Comic Con, someone asked Brandon for a tip bits about Kaladin into her book signing and got: "Kaladin has known two Lightweavers." I feel it isn't terribly conclusive and somewhat contradictory I must admit I thought that referred to Hoid. The definition he refers to could be a proto-Radiant but I figured it refers to Yolish lightweaving. I'd love to be wrong though. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, maxal said: Alright. Here it is: In March 2014, Brandon said: At the September 2014 SLC Comic Con, someone asked Brandon for a tip bits about Kaladin into her book signing and got: "Kaladin has known two Lightweavers." I feel it isn't terribly conclusive and somewhat contradictory Well we're well aware of another person Kaladin knows who can lightweave through a means not native to Roshar. And ninja'd by @Extesian Edited June 7, 2017 by Calderis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnshard Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 I agree with Calderis. I think that Hoid is a "Lightweaver" by virtue of knowing that magic type. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciridae Posted June 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 @The One Who Connects I didn't mean to imply that your theory was stretching, I like it a lot actually. I meant I was stretching it when suggesting that the amethysts in the scene could foreshadow him becoming a Willshaper. I hope I didn't come across as rude I haven't seen that WoB before but I agree that it most likely refers to Hoid. The apothecary probably wasn't a lightweaver when Kaladin met him, so fingers crossed it's foreshadowing. On the other hand like @CaptainRyan said, maybe Brandon is trolling us a little and we're supposed to obsess and freak out about the words he uses in that chapter but in the end they don't have a deeper meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted June 9, 2017 Report Share Posted June 9, 2017 On 6/7/2017 at 1:45 AM, Ciridae said: I meant I was stretching it when suggesting that the amethysts in the scene could foreshadow him becoming a Willshaper. I hope I didn't come across as rude Oh don't worry, I didn't think there was any rudeness. I just didn't make the connection to the amethyst comment since it was in the prior sentence, so I thought you were calling the "Elhokar is Willshaper b/c he's unreliable" idea a stretch. (Which it would be if that was all the theory was) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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