What is the Purelake?

[cris34b he/him]

I've been thinking. In WoK, we encounter three foreigners in the Purelake, looking for Hoid. In Hoid's note, he is said to have laid a false trail for them to follow. Assuming these are the ones he laid the trail for, I have to ask the question; What is so important about the Purelake that the people of the 17th Shard would believe Hoid would spend time there? 

 

Just a question, I've got some theories, but nothing definite. The Purelake drains during Highstorms, right? That isn't exactly natural, so maybe it is draining to protect it's waters from being polluted by the Highstorms? Purelake. Maybe it -is- a Shardpool and as such, it is defending itself.

Maybe it has something to do with the Keep Dalinar saw during his vision out in the Purelake? I don't know, but its some food for thought for all of you.

[Aether he/him]

Just a question, I've got some theories, but nothing definite. The Purelake drains during Highstorms, right? That isn't exactly natural, so maybe it is draining to protect it's waters from being polluted by the Highstorms? Purelake. Maybe it -is- a Shardpool and as such, it is defending itself

As I've already mentioned here, this particular trait of the Purelake has real-world equivalents. The drawbacck of the Purelake's water before a Highstorm is likely completely natural (though the Highstorm itself is likely not). This doesn't say anything against the idea of it really being a Shardpool, though I fail to see any substantial evidence for it.

[DocHoliday he/him]

I feel the need to disagree with you completely Aether. Tsunami drawback occurs due to massive displacement of water, forcing the water into a wave.

 

However, Highstorms do not lift the seabed, which is the primary cause of tsunamis. I don't see how your contradiction is compatible with what has been observed.

[Aether he/him]

I feel the need to disagree with you completely Aether. Tsunami drawback occurs due to massive displacement of water, forcing the water into a wave.

 

However, Highstorms do not lift the seabed, which is the primary cause of tsunamis. I don't see how your contradiction is compatible with what has been observed.

HIghstorms are wet. The Stormwall alone is described as a wall of water and wind, and there is a substantial downpour both under and after the storm itself. While it you are correct to point out that a Highstorm is quite different from a Tsunami, there is a massive displacement of water. I was only using Tsunamis as a clear and easily accessible example of a real-world equivalent.

[Shardlet he/him]

HIghstorms are wet. The Stormwall alone is described as a wall of water and wind, and there is a substantial downpour both under and after the storm itself. While it you are correct to point out that a Highstorm is quite different from a Tsunami, there is a massive displacement of water. I was only using Tsunamis as a clear and easily accessible example of a real-world equivalent.

 

There is a massive displacement of water, but Ishikk says the storms are not as bad at the Purelake as they are in the east.  Also, the drawback phenomenon of a tsunami does not seem quite analogous to what happens at the Purelake.  The Purelake is said to drain.  Also, the closest real-world thing we have to a highstorm would be a hurricane, which pushes standing water forward (storm surge) rather than drawing the water into the storm.

[king of nowhere]

I also wondered at the purelake. if nothing else, a big lake that is only one meter deep should be geologically unstable. it would fill with sediments in no time, or it would evaporate, or grow. retreating underground during storms is another oddity.

So yes, I agree that there is something strange with the purelake. it could actually be a shardpool (can they be so big? all the others we saw were at most a few meters across), although it don't fit much with shardpool's known behaviour. It could be something else, but i'd bet for sure there is something unnatural with it

[Radda she/her]

Maybe sediments are mostly blown away during Highstorms.

Btw, am I the only one who can't help but imagine the extremely wrinkled toes of Purelakers every time I read Ishikk's interlude?

[FirstSelector]

Good thoughts!  Unfortunately, the more I think about the Purelake, the more conflicted I become on its true nature.

 

Here's a simple model of for the draining action.  The highstorms are accompanied by a high-pressure front which creates the crazy winds and such.  If the Purelake was sitting on a particularly porous rock which had a water absorption rate that was very sensitive to pressure, then the high pressure would cause the water to "soak" into the rock when a highstorm was nearby.

 

Granted, this isn't the best model - what happens to the fish?  Presumably the lake is not depleted of fish every highstorm.  Originally, I thought that the lake would drain through holes into the ground and the fish would simply flow with the water.  However, to my knowledge we don't see any character commenting on the fact that there would be huge holes in the lakebed.

 

If those holes did exist, we might imagine that the Purelake extends underground through these holes, and then rests on the porous rock described above.  When a highstorm approaches, the water from the visible part of the lake drains into the cavern, and the water in the cavern is soaked into the rock.

 

The porous-rock model (without holes) has one nice advantage - any impurities in the lake would likely not penetrate into the rock.  So when the water drains, it would leave any impurities behind (like noodles in a colander) which would then be swept away by the highstorm.  The water coming out of the rock would be as clear as water from a filter, since this is effectively reverse osmosis in action.

 

I don't know what to make of Ishikk's thoughts on fish - do they really have the magical properties that he claims?  If the Purelake really is somehow related to a Shardpool, then one might imagine that the power would leak over into the creatures living in it.  Maybe the Shardpool is underneath the rock, and when the water drains away it comes into contact with said Shardpool.

 

Lastly, there's the fact that Dalinar sees a grand keep in the center of the Purelake, and in the modern day was dissuaded from venturing to the center of the lake.  There is almost certainly more to the Purelake than we have seen so far, and I wonder if it is really designed to be a defense of sorts for that keep.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I don't know what to make of Ishikk's thoughts on fish - do they really have the magical properties that he claims?  If the Purelake really is somehow related to a Shardpool, then one might imagine that the power would leak over into the creatures living in it.  Maybe the Shardpool is underneath the rock, and when the water drains away it comes into contact with said Shardpool.

I would say the "magic fish" do have some special abilities. They are in symbiotic relationships with spren after all.

[cris34b he/him]

Hmm, perhaps the Purelake itself isn't a Shardpool, but maybe it is on top of one? Maybe like you said, there is a cavern underground that it drains into, and in the cavern is a little pool of metallic liquid or other strange liquid, and every time the lake drains, it touches this water, and the lake keeps getting little infusions of Shard magic? I don't know the specifics, but this is a fun idea.

[DocHoliday he/him]

HIghstorms are wet. The Stormwall alone is described as a wall of water and wind, and there is a substantial downpour both under and after the storm itself. While it you are correct to point out that a Highstorm is quite different from a Tsunami, there is a massive displacement of water. I was only using Tsunamis as a clear and easily accessible example of a real-world equivalent.

But you said it yourself.

The Storm is wet from down pours. This increases the amount of water in the area, but doesn't displace the water in the immediate vicinity.

I would think flooding to be a much more likely scenario, but that evidently isn't the case.

[Isomere]

There is a holy grotto in the Purelake where it is safe to speak freely about the spiteful god. Sounds like a good location for a Shardpool.

[+Aletus he/him]

It's kind of confusing - the water 'hides' for some reason or another. This makes me believe that the water has a reason to recede. Plants exhibit the same behavior for survival - but the storms are weaker in the area, I doubt much water would get sloshed about - so there is likely something special about the region, if not the water in particular. 

 

With highstorms plowing over every few days though - you would think that it would accumulate in the lake bed, at least to some degree, which would dilute the water, when it returned. Thus it's clearly not the fluid contents of the highstorm that are the problem.

 

Maybe the water doesn't like the stormlight? 

Perhaps I have it backwards - maybe what's under the water really likes the stormlight

Edited February 10, 2014 by Blackwood

[Shardlet he/him]

According to Ishikk, the Purelake drains "into pits and holes when the storms" come.  Since he has lived his life at the Purelake, I would trust him on this.

[king of nowhere]

yeah, but what's in those pits and lakes when there is not a highstorm? how does the water from those holes flow back to the surface? there is no physical explanation. maybe one shardpool is in the purelake, and another is in the origin of the storms. who knows about the third.

[Moogle]

yeah, but what's in those pits and lakes when there is not a highstorm? how does the water from those holes flow back to the surface? there is no physical explanation. maybe one shardpool is in the purelake, and another is in the origin of the storms. who knows about the third.

 

It's possible that the water is sucked up by the highstorm, and rains back down, refilling the Purelake. Possible, but unlikely.

 

Another possibility is that the highstorm creates a region of high pressure, which forces the water down. I don't know what all could be compressible below-ground, but it's possible there's spongy stuff down there I guess.

 

I suspect there's a supernatural explanation here, something to do with the two Shardic Intents being opposed.

[Dros]

I also wondered at the purelake. if nothing else, a big lake that is only one meter deep should be geologically unstable. it would fill with sediments in no time, or it would evaporate, or grow. retreating underground during storms is another oddity.

So yes, I agree that there is something strange with the purelake. it could actually be a shardpool (can they be so big? all the others we saw were at most a few meters across), although it don't fit much with shardpool's known behaviour. It could be something else, but i'd bet for sure there is something unnatural with it

 

There is a real world equivalent: Lake Mattamuskeet in Eastern North Carolina. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Mattamuskeet

 

And it was drained once. Lived near there for a time. A friend of mine grew up in Hyde County about a mile from that lake.

[Youngy he/him]

I immediately thought of the pressure theory when the lake draining was mentioned... But water isn't very compressible, so there would need to be something in the holes that was...

[Swimmingly he/him]

A hydrophobic sponge structure that repulses water under normal conditions but allows it at a high enough pressure?

[digitalbusker he/him]

Does the Purelake have crem in it? I'd assumed from the name and the descriptions of its clarity that there wasn't crem, but perhaps it's just so calm that all the crem settles to the bottom. Does anybody kick up puffs of mud when they walk around?

If my hazy memory/hunch is right and the Purelake doesn't contain significant amounts of crem, then I'd guess that the hiding water is part of the mechanism that makes that possible. I'm not sure how. Maybe the Purelake waters go down those holes into a reservoir, and then a valve is switched, causing the crem-laden highstorm water to drain away somewhere else, so there's no crem on the lakebed when the Purelake waters are pumped back out.

[Joar_nessosin]

Could the purelake be one gaint spren that retreats into hiding when the storms come?

[Metacognition he/him]

Dang it, Joar, I was just about to say that. 

 

Even so, it still could be a shardpool. Most of the pools we've seen are small in area, thus condensing the magic held within it, but that doesn't mean that it has to be that way. If you spread out a shardpool, the effects of the magic might just be lessened, causing minor miraculous things like the lake retreating during a highstorm and magical fishes. It also seems to have an effect on the people who live there, making them much more peaceful and calm than we've seen in most people on Roshar. They also seem to put a special significance on give and take dealings and treat them with almost a reverence, like with how Ishikk and Maib used meals and fish to constantly balance out their favors to each other. Seems like a pretty honorable system, yes?

[Swimmingly he/him]

I like the idea that the actual shardpool is somewhere beneath, but the lakewater mixes with and dilutes the power while spreading it all over the lake

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

I like the idea that the actual shardpool is somewhere beneath, but the lakewater mixes with and dilutes the power while spreading it all over the lake

Same here. Perhaps the mechanism for the retreating is that the Shardpool beneath is what actually recedes, and the lake just flows down to fill the gap? Sure, you still need to figure out why the Shardpool recedes, but it fits more with the magical qualities of the Purelake.

[Dros]

Same here. Perhaps the mechanism for the retreating is that the Shardpool beneath is what actually recedes, and the lake just flows down to fill the gap? Sure, you still need to figure out why the Shardpool recedes, but it fits more with the magical qualities of the Purelake.

 

I like that idea, but I can't help but think the large structure we saw in Dalinar's vision has something to do with it. It's apparently not there anymore, or at least no one has mentioned it in a few millennia. I would think someone would have mentioned massive ruins at the center of the Purelake. Where did it go?