Is a Shardspear possible and can Shardplate be summoned

[rbnguevara]

I am new to this as far as posting goes but I have been following this site for a while now. 

 

I would like to bring up a not so new subject but as far as I can tell a new pov.

 

CH 19

Starfalls PG 325 of the ebook

 

twice it is stated that the KR donned or removed there helms unseen.  This was mentioned on purpose.  I believe that one who has the Nahel bond and spoken the 5 Ideals of the KR for their order they will have completed the bond and then somehow create the Shard plate and blade out of mist.  Just as the blade can be summoned so can the plate.  I have no doubt on this at all.  The only thing I am unsure of is whether or not you need to speak all 5 ideals or just 3 or 4.

 

CH 52

Highway to the Sun PG 776 of the ebook

 

Dalinar witnesses the Day of Recreance and he see's and hears 2 things of significance. 1 Dalinar notices that the Shardplate and Blade glows in a way that it has never done for him or anyone else. 2 He also swears he can almost hear screaming but isn't sure.  Why?

 

I think and this has been discussed a bit.  The true KR glow because of the bond and the screaming would be either the Spren dying or returning to Shadesmar.  The loss of the bond theses spren made with men could kill them or send them into a dumb state of mind like if they never bonded to a man. 

 

This does bring up some issues but not many.

 

1 Shallan as we no has a blade but we don't know how she got it.  It is only speculated and until we get more of her past from WoR we won't know.

 

2 Why doesn't plate summon out of mist now for those who won it like the blade.  That is more complicated but simply put I think it has to do with how it works.  The plate grows to fit the owner and can be regrown when broken along with other nice little perks. 

 

There is more to this I know and I am totally up for more discussion on this.

[Moogle]

twice it is stated that the KR donned or removed there helms unseen.  This was mentioned on purpose.  I believe that one who has the Nahel bond and spoken the 5 Ideals of the KR for their order they will have completed the bond and then somehow create the Shard plate and blade out of mist.  Just as the blade can be summoned so can the plate.  I have no doubt on this at all.  The only thing I am unsure of is whether or not you need to speak all 5 ideals or just 3 or 4.

 

Modern Shardplate can have the helm become translucent, and the KR in Dalinar's vision only ever summoned/unsummoned her helmet. It's likely that Radiants with Shardplate glowing just can make their helmet 100% transparent, rather than summon it.

[Scriptorian]

Modern Shardplate can have the helm become translucent, and the KR in Dalinar's vision only ever summoned/unsummoned her helmet. It's likely that Radiants with Shardplate glowing just can make their helmet 100% transparent, rather than summon it.

But that is not nearly as cool.

[dyring]

Shardplate I wonder about, if its not something created.

 

But the shardblade, one thing I am considering is that it is just the spren itself somehow. And the modern shardblades are "dead" spren, locked into the shape of blades.

[QuantumHarmonix]

Modern Shardplate can have the helm become translucent, and the KR in Dalinar's vision only ever summoned/unsummoned her helmet. It's likely that Radiants with Shardplate glowing just can make their helmet 100% transparent, rather than summon it.

If that is the case, why would you ever make the helmet not transparent ? Because, unless I remember incorrectly the only times the helms disappear is when they want to talk. So if they can make the helmet 100% transparent, why don't they use that while fighting? Using anything else would seem to be limiting their vision during combat unnecessarily.

[Duskshard]

My thoughts on Shardplate:

 

1. That a Surgebinder summons/instantly grows there Shardplate when they say the 4/5 ideal.

 

2. That the purpose of Shardeplate for the Surgebinder is twofold, 1- To act as an exoskeleton offering enhanced defence and offensive capabilities. 2- To act as a second skin to provide perfect containment for the Surgebinders stormlight.

 

3. That the reason Shardplate glowed for the KR is due to the second point made above, i.e. containment of stormlight.

 

4. That invested gemstones weren't necessary to power the Plate, that the Surgebinder could do that directly.

 

5. That Shardplate is of Cultivation or a mixture of Cultivation and honor (as are the bonded spren) and this is why Surgebinding granted from an Honorblade isn't compatibly with Shardplate.

[Lorna]

Regarding the shardspear... wasn't that how Windy died?

_{(Remember the Shardhunt?)}

[Shadow Guardian]

I've never really liked the idea of the spren becoming shards, however a theory was around (found it) of the KR, in combination with their bonded spren being able to form their own blades and plate, unique to themselves, once they reach a certain level. I realize the mechanics of simply "creating" or "growing" shards via means of a nahel-bond is a little more shaky on it's own than the spren becoming/turning into the shards, but I feel it to be more likely from a literary standpoint to have Syl and others remain their own characters instead of being reduced to turning into shards.
 

At any rate, getting back to my original point, because I do think that each sharblade was originally something unique to its original holder (and possibly creator), I do think that a shardspear is a very real possibility. Also a self-made shardblade(spear) is the only type I ever see Kaladin using, because of that ever-present distrust of and the idea that there's something inherently wrong about all of the currently existing blades around.

 

As far as the summoning of plate goes, while it feels really awkward, logistically it still may be possible, though there's never been any notable evidence that plate is, or can be stored in another realm. The blades have the characteristic mist and condensation when they're summoned, but the aforementioned helmets that the knights were suddenly wearing/not wearing in Dalinar's vision have no mention of that same condensation. Logically, I like Moogle's thought that they can just make their helms entirely transparent, though at the same time, making something transparent doesn't change its being there, but then again, shardplate is rather different from regular plate.

[QuantumHarmonix]

With the dust jacket quote about widening cracks in the soul, I'm more convinced than ever that the shardblades are a piece of the KR's soul. I think the cognitive oaths widen the cracks until a shard of their soul can be pulled into the physical realm. I think the original blades were still attached to the KR that created it, and would therefore die with them. But during the recreance the KR's broke their oaths, which broke off that shard of their soul. This made the blades permanent but less than what they once were. I think further evidence is given in Adolin's section of the preview chapters in the way he interacts with his blade, even going as far as saying that the blade feels "like an extension of the soul". I swear Kaladin has said something similar about the spear, so I fully expect his shard to take the form of a spear. 

[Chlehrma]

We have WoB that shards can have forms other than a sword. He did not specify what type of form.

[Cortez]

The visor is only transparent to the wearer. Pretty sure Adolin mentions that in his preview chapter as he states Renarin can't see him smiling.

[Stormfather]

I asked Brandon if there can be shard spears at an Idaho Falls Way of Kings signing and he told me yes

[Moogle]

If that is the case, why would you ever make the helmet not transparent ? Because, unless I remember incorrectly the only times the helms disappear is when they want to talk. So if they can make the helmet 100% transparent, why don't they use that while fighting? Using anything else would seem to be limiting their vision during combat unnecessarily.

 

Dalinar remarks specifically that Shardplate becomes translucent wherever you look.

 

 

“Hold back, Your Majesty,” Dalinar called, riding past. “Wait until Adolin and I weaken it.” Dalinar reached up, slamming down his own visor. The sides misted, locking it into place, and the sides of the helm became translucent to him. You still needed the eye slit—looking through the sides was like looking through dirty glass—but the translucence was one of the most wonderful parts of Shardplate.

 

It seems likely that when using Shardplate 'correctly' as a Radiant does, it wouldn't even be like looking through dirty glass. The reason that Knights don't have their helmets fully transparent at all times is likely because it takes energy to manipulate light and/or because it is an advantage during combat if your opponent doesn't know where you're looking.

[Cortez]

The faceplate only becomes transparent to the wearer;

 

 

 

Adolin slammed down his faceplate. It misted at the sides, locking into place, becoming translucent and giving him a full view of the room. Adolin grinned, knowing full well Renarin couldn’t see the expression.

 

[Morsk]

With the dust jacket quote about widening cracks in the soul, I'm more convinced than ever that the shardblades are a piece of the KR's soul. I think the cognitive oaths widen the cracks until a shard of their soul can be pulled into the physical realm. I think the original blades were still attached to the KR that created it, and would therefore die with them. But during the recreance the KR's broke their oaths, which broke off that shard of their soul.

I wonder if this has side-effects in breaking off a part of their soul, and the Radiants made themselves effectively brain-damaged, like a Parshendi without a spren, explaining why none of them would talk to Dalinar. It could also explain spren dying, if the spren are bound to this "magicy" part of the Radiants' soul that became the Shardblades. A spren needs to be bound to someone who can think, but now the spren is only bound to the Shardblade, not an entire person, and that's not enough to let them think.

[11thorderknight]

I think that, between the Starfalls scene and Szeth's comments regarding Plate, it's pretty clear that "modern" Shardplate is not being used they way it was meant to. People figured out they could "hack" it by attaching gems to power it, but I'm sure the Radiants were able to summon it at will, as well as use their Surges while wearing it.

 

As for the Blades and Kaladin....my theory is that at some point, perhaps while fighting Szeth, he will try to block a Blade with his spear, and infuse it with stormlight, thereby blocking a Shardblade. From there, he will somehow go on to make a Shardspear.

[Aminar]

I have to question the usefulness of a shardspear.  Shardblades are shown as most effective when used in wide sweeping slashes, cutting down several opponents at once by cutting their spines(stated as required for a lethal cut..  A spear is a stabbing weapon, and stabbing a spine is a whole lot harder than slashing through a man with a 6 foot lightsaber..  Even when used for slashing the blade isn't very long, leaving much of the haft to get caught, grabbed, etc.  If Brandon has the haft behave like a shardblade it's purely an aesthetic choice and the spear itself becomes somewhat useless because that nullifies the advantages of having a long hafted weapon.
At best a Shard-Halberd could work, but the sword would be far more effective.
The one place I see a Shardspear being vastly more effective is when fighting another shardbearer, as outreaching an opponent with a 7-8 foot spear and being able to haft block a shardblade would be a great strategic advantage.  Even then, the kill would be difficult though. It depends on if Sharspear stabs break through sharplate better than blades do, which in theory they should, as stabbing through armor is much easier than slashing.

[QuantumHarmonix]

Dalinar remarks specifically that Shardplate becomes translucent wherever you look.

 

 

It seems likely that when using Shardplate 'correctly' as a Radiant does, it wouldn't even be like looking through dirty glass. The reason that Knights don't have their helmets fully transparent at all times is likely because it takes energy to manipulate light and/or because it is an advantage during combat if your opponent doesn't know where you're looking.

So you are saying that the Radiant's helm is like a one way mirror in combat, letting them see but not be seen. Then they turn it to glass when they want to be seen. 

[Moogle]

So you are saying that the Radiant's helm is like a one way mirror in combat, letting them see but not be seen. Then they turn it to glass when they want to be seen. 

 

Yeah, that seems to be how it works. I'm not 100% sure, but the way it turns translucent for Dalinar and Adolin is suggestive.

[.S.A.M.K.M]

 Because the spear is linked to him, he can throw it, then bring it back to him.

 

 What if plate has a gem that a wearer has to specificly link to allow the ability to summon or dismiss he plate?

[Robot Aztec]

 

I asked Brandon if there can be shard spears at an Idaho Falls Way of Kings signing and he told me yes

 

that is WAY NICE thankyou for sharing

[Darkness]

 Because the spear is linked to him, he can throw it, then bring it back to him.

 

 What if plate has a gem that a wearer has to specificly link to allow the ability to summon or dismiss he plate?

It would be awesome to have a shard arrow. Let it fly from a bow at 300 yards (or even 500 with the enhanced strength of plate), and then summon it back once it hits. It probably wouldn't do all that much more than a regular arrow passing through people, but think of how nice it would be to shatter shardplate before the bearer even got to you!

[Awesomeness Summoned]

It would be awesome to have a shard arrow. Let it fly from a bow at 300 yards (or even 500 with the enhanced strength of plate), and then summon it back once it hits. It probably wouldn't do all that much more than a regular arrow passing through people, but think of how nice it would be to shatter shardplate before the bearer even got to you!

Actually, a shardarrow seems like it would be quite devastating on the battlefield. If it passed through people and kills them like a shardblade, you could take out dozens of men who are lined up in battle ranks. Granted, you'd have to be a bit closer to the battle lines than what you were suggesting for a shot like that to work.

Edited February 3, 2014 by aWESomeness summoned

[Aminar]

It would be awesome to have a shard arrow. Let it fly from a bow at 300 yards (or even 500 with the enhanced strength of plate), and then summon it back once it hits. It probably wouldn't do all that much more than a regular arrow passing through people, but think of how nice it would be to shatter shardplate before the bearer even got to you!

If you're pulling a shot every 10 heartbeats(+arrow flight time, knock time, and aim time) you're not being a very efficient archer.  Shardbows with iron arrows make a lot more sense for dealing with shardbearers.  Same with spear throws, which are meant to slow somebody down by wounding and bleeding them.  That and a throwing spear is entirely different from a combat spear in most cases.  Throwing an eight foot pole isn't generally practical, and a 4-5 foot javelin isn't the best hand to hand weapon.

 

Actually, a shardarrow seems like it would be quite devastating on the battlefield. If it passed through people and kills them like a shardblade, you could take out dozens of men who are lined up in battle ranks. Granted, you'd have to be a bit closer to the battle lines than what you were suggesting for a shot like that to work.

 

Shardblades need to cut specific locations(the spine/head) to kill.  Otherwise at best they might take out a few limbs a shot, but aren't likely to do much.  Beyond that combat archery is about volleys.  You're not getting volleys of shard arrows...

Edited February 3, 2014 by Aminar

[Duskshard]

 

 

 

 

Shardblades need to cut specific locations(the spine/head) to kill.  Otherwise at best they might take out a few limbs a shot, but aren't likely to do much.  Beyond that combat archery is about volleys.  You're not getting volleys of shard arrows...

 

Shardblade also kill from hitting vital organs and killing them. Hitting a vital organ has the same effect as hitting the core of a limb.

 

We know this from when Elhokar is attacking the Chasmfiend and Dalinar thinks to himself that if he can ram his Shardblade in just right then he can stop the beasts heart or lungs.