Using someone else's metalmind

[Kinnsayyy]

Does anyone know if it's possible to burn someone else's metalmind? Maybe through feruchemically draining your identity? I'm not talking about using an Unkeyed metalmind, but one a normal feruchemist used. 

 

If so, on the coppermind article for nightblood it says that it would just be like burning someone else's metalmind, but if you can get around this problem, I wonder what it would do? Could you gain all the investiture inside of nightblood? 

 

Just a thought. Any speculations? 

[The One Who Connects]

1. You can burn someone else's Metalmind. Vin does just that with one of Sazed's Rings. It's how we know they can "feel the power in it, but couldn't access it."

2. If you mean burning a Metalmind for the purpose of compounding, Brandon has said that burning another's Mind will only give the Allomantic power, so it most likely won't work. I don't think Identity comes into play with Allomancy(since burning the Mind is now Allomancy, rather than Feruchemy) but we don't know.

3. For Nightblood specifically, this will not work. Removing Identity doesn't make other's Minds usable, you would also have to have the requisite power. Nightblood would have to be Allomantically viable in the first place, which is an unknown. You would then have to swallow the sword without cutting yourself and dying instantly. Assuming that you can't swallow both sword and sheathe, you'd have to do this quickly before it drained your essence as well. 

[Oversleep]

25 minutes ago, Kinnsayyy said:

Does anyone know if it's possible to burn someone else's metalmind? Maybe through feruchemically draining your identity? I'm not talking about using an Unkeyed metalmind, but one a normal feruchemist used. 

Well, you can use Hemalurgy to steal that Feruchemist's Identity. Then that metalmind would be available to you and by burning it you would Compound.

[Spoolofwhool]

32 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

1. You can burn someone else's Metalmind. Vin does just that with one of Sazed's Rings. It's how we know they can "feel the power in it, but couldn't access it."

1. I though Vin wasn't able to burn the metalmind. My impression was that she could sense the potential power that would be granted if the metal was burned, like with other allomantic metals, but was unable to access the metal by burning it.

[The One Who Connects]

12 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

1. I though Vin wasn't able to burn the metalmind. My impression was that she could sense the potential power that would be granted if the metal was burned, like with other allomantic metals, but was unable to access the metal by burning it.

Make of this how you wish.

Quote

“She felt at her Allomantic reserve, but the stud’s metal didn’t seem to do anything different. She tentatively burned pewter.
“Anything?” Sazed asked.
Vin shook her head. “No, I don’t . . .” She trailed off. There was something there, something different.”

Excerpt From: Sanderson, Brandon. “Mistborn: The Final Empire.” Macmillan, 2008-01-15T05:00:00+00:00. iBooks. 
This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[Calderis]

OK so in BoM when VenDell is discussing identity he mentions how someone without identity might hypothetically be able to use anyones metalmind. So if you have a medallion to grant the proper feruchemical ability and can allomantically use that same metal, what's going to stop them from tapping and/or compounding someone elses metalminds? 

If an unkeyed metalmind is a "key" that fits any lock, the same reasoning makes it seem likely that a trueself ferring, while storing, is a lock that accepts any key. 

[Yata]

4 minutes ago, Calderis said:

OK so in BoM when VenDell is discussing identity he mentions how someone without identity might hypothetically be able to use anyones metalmind. So if you have a medallion to grant the proper feruchemical ability and can allomantically use that same metal, what's going to stop them from tapping and/or compounding someone elses metalminds? 

Probably nothing ...I think we have also a WoB about

[Pagerunner]

14 minutes ago, Calderis said:

OK so in BoM when VenDell is discussing identity he mentions how someone without identity might hypothetically be able to use anyones metalmind. So if you have a medallion to grant the proper feruchemical ability and can allomantically use that same metal, what's going to stop them from tapping and/or compounding someone elses metalminds? 

If an unkeyed metalmind is a "key" that fits any lock, the same reasoning makes it seem likely that a trueself ferring, while storing, is a lock that accepts any key. 

So, the analogy that we've been using for Identity and unkeyed metalminds actually had it reversed, that Identity is the key and that a metalmind is a lock. Speculation prior to BoM (and, actually, VenDell's itself) was focusing on changing the shape of your Identity to mimic another's, to make a duplicate key that could open someone else's lock. Unkeyed metalminds, however, take a different approach; by blanking your Identity, you're not making a functional lock, it's one that any key can open.

The kandra's experiments with Identity haven't yielded anything useful; I think it's because they were going about it the wrong way, working with keys instead of locks. And without Hemalurgy, an aluminum Ferring would be unable to actually use anyone else's metalminds anyways.

As to compounding, I think Brandon needs to limit that medallions cannot be used to compound, just for the sake of worldbuilding. This would be a restriction placed on the world, for which he would need to come up with a satisfying explanation, rather than a natural outgrowth of the system. Because the natural outgrowth has a total post-scarcity society where everything, food/health/mental speed, is compounded to infinity in unkeyed minds. And it will also be trivially easy to store speed and strength, making for obscenely powerful criminals who are stopped by equally as absurd heroes. Think Wax at the end of BoM, but that's EVERYBODY.

So, for meta reasons, I will assert that an Allomancer cannot use a medallion to compound. I can't say exactly why, but I have some ideas. I thought it would have to do with Identity at first; if the Identity associated with the two powers don't match, then you can't perform the hack. But Marsh is compounding Identity using spikes, so that's obviously not the case. Maybe the medallions only grant the ability to tap, not to store. But, no, the weight medallions need you to be able to store. So, right now, I'm pretty much back to square one; it would break the world if it could happen, so it must not be possible.

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

Make of this how you wish.

 

Yeah. A bit lower down does have her saying she feels the shadowy power when she burns it. I don't really like it though. It contrasts my understanding of things. 

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

Make of this how you wish.

 

Yeah. A bit lower down does have her saying she feels the shadowy power when she burns it. I don't really like it though. It contrasts my understanding of things. 

[Calderis]

@Pagerunner while I agree it would have game breaking consequences, the rules as currently presented make it seem not only possible but likely. 

I honestly think there needs to be a limiting factor here, but I'll wait for the evidence before assuming it's there. 

The post scarcity world your talking about seems likely though for an FTL society in era 4 though. You'd essentially have medallions replacing star treks replicators

[Oversleep]

@Pagerunner, the thing is you can burn an unkeyed metalmind to Compound:

Quote

Kurkistan

So if you're a Coinshot and you get [spiked] to have Feruchemical steel, and then you lose the spike after making a store, you can still Compound that for speed?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes... Yeah, that should still work.

spike

But there is something going on with medallions - you can't use two of them at the same time. We don't know why, though. But with Survivor's Spearhead they can make replicates of it, medallions granting 32 powers... unless Harmony's like "NO!" and kandra took it away.