Logan

[Quiver he/him]

Anyone seen it yet?

(I'm typing this right as the trailers start, so...reaction later )

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

Happy hug a koala day Quiver.

[Anonymous2000]

The reviews are really good, 93% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes!  Hopefully I can see it soon.

[Jedal he/him]

I'm seeing Logan in a couple hours with some friends. I'm pretty stoked.

[Modal Seoul he/him]

Logan is definitely one of the best X-Men films ever. (Besides Deadpool and X2) Without giving away anything, it's not a surprise that this was rated R. Besides the violence(amazing) and the language(F$@#!), it gives a deep message that nobody under 14 would understand. As well, the relationship between Professor X and Logan in this one is stupendous. As an aside, I've never had more respect for the mutant Caliban until this movie.

[Oversleep]

The movie was very good. Dafne Keen's performance was truly exceptional. Especially when you realize she's 11 and it's her first big role.

I was angry that in the end Logan died. He went through so much and couldn't he at least have some more time with Laura?

Then after some time, thinking clearly, I realized he was pretty much dying from adamantium poisoning (The Cough of Doom) the entire movie. This made his death more reasonable but still they had too little daughter-father moments for this kind of plot. This makes me sad.

Also, I am completely confused as to why adamantium bullets can kill Logan and Laura.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Oversleep

[Modal Seoul he/him]

On 3/31/2017 at 5:01 PM, Oversleep said:

Also, I am completely confused as to why adamantium bullets can kill Logan and Laura.

Well, since no metal can withstand adamantium, (not even vibranium) the only metal that can do so is adamantium. A prime example is(I can't believe I'm referencing this) X-Men Origins: Wolverine. When Stryker shoots Logan, the adamantium pierced his head. He healed, but he lost some memories. The bullets are the only things strong enough to hurt them.

[Oversleep]

23 minutes ago, Captains Domon said:

Well, since no metal can withstand adamantium, (not even vibranium) the only metal that can do so is adamantium. A prime example is(I can't believe I'm referencing this) X-Men Origins: Wolverine. When Stryker shoots Logan, the adamantium pierced his head. He healed, but he lost some memories. The bullets are the only things strong enough to hurt them.

???

This doesn't make much sense. They're not indestructible so you need something "strong enough to hurt them". They regenerate which is a different thing.

It doesn't matter what the damage is done with. If his brain is blown out, what does it matter whether it was done by a nuke or a wooden spike? Normal bullet or adamantium bullet? What matters is stoping or overwhelming regeneration. So either you block mutant powers and then shoot them or deal constant damage faster than they can regenerate (for example dropping them in a lake of acid or in volcano. Or poisoning. Like from adamantium-coated bones. A lot of radiation, probably. Or all of them combined).

Edited April 2, 2017 by Oversleep

[Modal Seoul he/him]

Well, this is because their entire skeleton systems are lined with a layer of adamantium.

1 hour ago, Oversleep said:

If his brain is blown out, what does it matter whether it was done by a nuke or a wooden spike?

Wolverine is extremely adaptable. He survived Hiroshima. A wooden spike? Seriously? Assuming he is at his prime, he wouldn't let that get near enough to touch him. (Though was impaled by a tree branch.)

Edited April 2, 2017 by Captains Domon

[Oversleep]

13 hours ago, Captains Domon said:

Well, this is because their entire skeleton systems are lined with a layer of adamantium.

This still doesn't explain why a simple shot would kill him.

13 hours ago, Captains Domon said:

Wolverine is extremely adaptable. He survived Hiroshima. A wooden spike? Seriously? Assuming he is at his prime, he wouldn't let that get near enough to touch him. (Though was impaled by a tree branch.)

You're missing the point.

@Quiver, given your knowledge of comics... Is there an explanation for that?

[Edgedancer he/him]

1 hour ago, Oversleep said:

This still doesn't explain why a simple shot would kill him.

You're missing the point.

@Quiver, given your knowledge of comics... Is there an explanation for that?

Not Quiver but to Xplain, in the movie canon Logan's healing factor originates with his brain, which means that when it gets utterly blown out no more healing but that never really comes up, because nothing could actually get through his adamantium skull to do the damage. (Don't ask me how he survived the nuke in The Wolverine then, either it's that movie that made a mistake or adamantium blocked enough of the heat/radiation to keep his brain barely alive enough to outheal the damage.)
The exception to that is of course the adamantium bullet, which is just as hard as the skull, so when it penetrates the skull and turns their brain into nothing but goo they're gone for good.

[Quiver he/him]

1 hour ago, Oversleep said:

This still doesn't explain why a simple shot would kill him.

You're missing the point.

@Quiver, given your knowledge of comics... Is there an explanation for that?

Wolverine is disgustingly over-powered, and the sheer indestructibility he exhibits kills a lot of tension in stories. #CyclopsWasRight

..oh, fine. More elaborate explanation.

See, the thing is, most superheroes powers are inconsistent. Sometimes Spider-Man can lift a train over his head; sometimes he struggles to lift a car. There are broad conceptions of where they lie on the power scale, but generally, a superheroes superpowers are exactly as strong as they need to be for the plot to work. In the case of Wolverine...

Well, his healing factor is grossly over-powered. Back in the 80's, I believe if he got shot, it took a while for him to get back to full strength; not months of hospitalisation that a real human would require, but a little bit of time. That gradually evolved over the characters history to the point where, yeah, he can tank Hiroshima-level explosions, and he might not even notice that he's gotten shot because it's so minor.

(I mean, I think there is a bit of fridge horror at work there, that Wolverine has suffered so many wound sover the course of his lifetime that he might not even register that stuff as pain. But whatevs.)

The mta explanation for this? The film producers needed a way to kill off the clone of a character who they had established as being functionally immortal. Adamantium kind of works as a fancy plot device here since it was set up in Origins:Wolverine that an adamantium bullet might be able to kill him. It also sort of works off comic book logic of X being better than Y, and helps give the Wolverine trilogy closure by connecting it back to where he started.

Could an adamantium bullet kill him in the comics? Eh...maybe. As I say, his healing factor is inconcistent as all heck. It got to the point where comic writers decided that anytime Wolverine got what looked like a life-threatening injury (like being shot into the sun YES THIS HAPPENED), he did in fact die and had to wrestle with the LITERAL ANGEL OF DEATH to earn the right to come back to life.

For what it's worth? Xavier once theorised that decapitation would kill Wolverine; actually, he thought it might be the only way to kill Wolverine. The theory went that if you cut off his head and got it far enough away from the body before the wounds could heal, he'd be done. There have also been other timelines that show Wolverine CAN be killed by relatively low-key elements; the Days of Future Past storyline has a very famous panel where Wolverine is blasted by a sentinel, killing him and leaving only his skeleton intact.

I'd say that we could hand wave this as "destroying the brain destroys whatever is responsible for the regeneration... but even ignoring stuff that SHOULD have killed him, there's a sequence in the comics where Laura takes a bullet to the head; she has momentary brain damage, but it knits itelf back together quickly enough, so THAT doesn't help.

So... we basically have to just accept this as the rules of this universe. If I was going to no-prize it, though, I'd point to the size of the wound. We've never seen movie!Wolverine take an injury on the scale that X-24 did; sute, he's been shot at, but...
But Laura's attack was more than a bullet wound. It blew out half of his head. My guess is that that bullet had an explosive round as well as being coated in adamantium, and that movie!Wolverine simply can't regenerate from something that completely destroys a part of him.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Quiver

[Edgedancer he/him]

4 minutes ago, Quiver said:

I'd say that we could hand wave this as "destroying the brain destroys whatever is responsible for the regeneration... but even ignoring stuff that SHOULD have killed him, there's a sequence in the comics where Laura takes a bullet to the head; she has momentary brain damage, but it knits itelf back together quickly enough, so THAT doesn't help.

To be fair on that part, Laura's healing factor has pretty much always been better than Logan's.Not because it's inherently "better" but because only her claws are coated in adamantium, meaning her healing factor isn't constantly taxed with coutering an entire skeletons worth of admantium poisoning and can thus concentrate more on actually fixing her.

[Quiver he/him]

1 minute ago, Edgedancer said:

To be fair on that part, Laura's healing factor has pretty much always been better than Logan's.Not because it's inherently "better" but because only her claws are coated in adamantium, meaning her healing factor isn't constantly taxed with coutering an entire skeletons worth of admantium poisoning and can thus concentrate more on actually fixing her.

That's true. I'm fairly certain there's been a scene where Wolverine has healed brain damage... but I couldn't think of when, so I went for the example I could cite

[Edgedancer he/him]

Just now, Quiver said:

That's true. I'm fairly certain there's been a scene where Wolverine has healed brain damage... but I couldn't think of when, so I went for the example I could cite

I think in Origins he got shot with an adamantium bullet and while he healed that's what left him with amnesia? Then of course that bullet didn't make his head explode like X-24's did. Plus, and that may just be me, but X-24's healing factor never seemed quite as strong as Logan's was in his prime. I mean just look at how bad a shape he's in after the scene on the farm.

[Quiver he/him]

Just now, Edgedancer said:

I think in Origins he got shot with an adamantium bullet and while he healed that's what left him with amnesia? Then of course that bullet didn't make his head explode like X-24's did. Plus, and that may just be me, but X-24's healing factor never seemed quite as strong as Logan's was in his prime. I mean just look at how bad a shape he's in after the scene on the farm.

That was the theory I'm working off of. Logan has already been shot with adamantium (or remembers being shot with adamantium, or... dang, the timelines are complicated now). He knows what happened the last time he got shot like that, so if he's determined that he's going to kill himself... yeah, I imagine he probably rigged the bullet some to make sure there is no chance of an amnesiac Logan waking up on a boat with no idea of how he got there or why there's a bald corpse on-board.

X-24... I think that's the problem with moving up to the R-rating. The damage he took is significantly less than what Wolverine has tanked earlier in the series, but those films were working off of cartoon/comic book logic. If you then move to a universe where bullets actually have weight and impact, it shifts the game some.

Honestly, given how loose the X-films are with continuity? Just rolling with it is probably the best. It's already contradictory in about six or seven different ways before now, so...

[Jondesu he/him]

Just saw Logan with my wife tonight, and...I wasn't impressed. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, but I felt his performances as Wolverine were far better in some of the other movies, and the story in this felt like it was designed only to be dark and gritty and have lots of blood and gore. Taking care of Charles as nice to see, and their relationship through their respective illnesses was touching, but I felt the movie was lacking overall.

Laura was amazing though, both in personality (what she conveyed in the first half of the movie when she never spoke a word was amazing) and skill, for the action sequences. 

I was also incredibly confused by the adamantium bullet. Yes, it's the only way to penetrate his skull. Striker shot him with one in Origins, right through the center of his head. It blew a hole through his brain and he healed right back up, just missing some memories. Huge continuity error there I'd say.

[Oversleep]

6 hours ago, Jondesu said:

Huge continuity error there I'd say.

Which continuity?

[Modal Seoul he/him]

7 hours ago, Jondesu said:

Striker shot him with one in Origins,

It's actually spelled Stryker....sorry, I had to do that. But we must bring in the fact that X-24's healing factor is much weaker than Wolverine's, so when he is shot, he doesn't have enough power to heal a wound like that. As an aside, what did you guys think of Caliban?

[Jondesu he/him]

5 hours ago, Captains Domon said:

It's actually spelled Stryker....sorry, I had to do that. But we must bring in the fact that X-24's healing factor is much weaker than Wolverine's, so when he is shot, he doesn't have enough power to heal a wound like that. As an aside, what did you guys think of Caliban?

Whoops, you're right.  I didn't know about X-24's healing factor being weaker, but it doesn't matter: what I was referring to was Wolverine stating that the adamantium bullet being able to kill himself or Laura.  He was saving it to use on himself.  He may have just been wrong about it being able to kill him, I guess, but it was implied that it would successfully kill him, just as it did X-24.