Murph Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 In mistborn the mentally unstable have "cracks" allowing kelsier to hear him. Allomancers have to break to access their powers, and surge binders were all broken as said by syl. I was wondering if maybe since Elhokar is a little mentally unstable that he can almost see the cognitive realm. His paranoia that is obviously understandable and founded could be a symptom of his mental illness. Or is he possibly a Surge binder like shallan? He would have to be the same as shallan since cryptics seem to be the ones watching. They also vanish when kalladin is around as the king says to kalladin because his spen scares away the cryptics. Because we know the honor spren and cryptics hate each other. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, Murph said: In mistborn the mentally unstable have "cracks" allowing kelsier to hear him. Allomancers have to break to access their powers, and surge binders were all broken as said by syl. I was wondering if maybe since Elhokar is a little mentally unstable that he can almost see the cognitive realm. His paranoia that is obviously understandable and founded could be a symptom of his mental illness. Or is he possibly a Surge binder like shallan? He would have to be the same as shallan since cryptics seem to be the ones watching. They also vanish when kalladin is around as the king says to kalladin because his spen scares away the cryptics. Because we know the honor spren and cryptics hate each other. If you read the descriptions, they don't quite seem to match with cryptics. Cryptics are always described as "head of lines" whereas Elhokar said "Twisted figures," (IIRC) which seems to suggest either a different spren, or perhaps influence by Odium. Cryptics and Honorspren are still on the same side; they might not get along due to differing Intents, but they don't hate each other. If a Cryptic was bonding Elhokar, Kaladin wouldn't have been able to banish it. If anything, Elhokar may have been inspired by Kaladin to due better, and the spren figured he was no longer on the path to bonding it. I find it more likely that he was under Odium's influence, personally, but with what evidence we have, it's anybody's guess really. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jofwu Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Khyrindor said: Cryptics are always described as "head of lines" whereas Elhokar said "Twisted figures," It would be one thing if multiple people described them one way and Elhokar another. But Shallan's the only other person who describes them. So I think you're a bit quick in dismissing the connection based on this one difference in description. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unodus Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I don't have any quotes on me, but I think Shallans father might've suffered from something similar..? Might be misremembering tho 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 47 minutes ago, Unodus said: I don't have any quotes on me, but I think Shallans father might've suffered from something similar..? Might be misremembering tho Are you referring to him going all crazy? I think it was said that he was like that because his daughter killed his wife and he had to live with everyone else believing he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantlee Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) I think it's likely Elhokar will be a surgebinder. From what we've seen from Lift, Kaladin, and Shallan, all of them underwent some kind of severe trauma before beginning to manifest their surgebinding abilities. It's similar for all the Mistborn we saw in Era 1 (see: snapping). Gavilar's death could very well have been that trauma for Elhokar; but I don't really agree that he's mentally ill. I think his paranoia is fairly reasonable given the role he was prematurely thrust into, and the multiple assassination attempts he survived. If your father had been brutally murdered, you knew that several groups of people were trying to kill you, and you also constantly saw weird mysterious spren out of the corner of your eye, wouldn't you be pretty paranoid? Edited February 22, 2017 by dantlee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackYeti Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 On 2/20/2017 at 5:47 PM, Khyrindor said: If you read the descriptions, they don't quite seem to match with cryptics. Cryptics are always described as "head of lines" whereas Elhokar said "Twisted figures," (IIRC) which seems to suggest either a different spren, or perhaps influence by Odium. I've looked up the exact quote, Elhokar actually says: Quote They watch me. Always. Waiting. I see their faces in mirrors. Symbols, twisted, inhuman …” [Chapter 58: The Journey] This sounds very much like the Cryptics' symbol heads to me. (Please note that I'm not saying that he is seeing Cryptics, only that the description sounds similar.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinsukolo Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Some time I wonder if in addition to him possibly seeing spren (reference your above quote) - that maybe he's unconsciously drawing stormlight at times. Maybe his armor wasn't weakened as he thinks in his fake assassination attempt. Maybe he drew the stormlight himself to compensate for some other aspect/injury of the attack. We've seen other budding surgebinders draw unconsciously before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) I've wondered if Elhokar's ability, either to see into the Cognitive Realm, or just being on the path to a Nahel bond, has to do with Dalinar's visit to the Nightwatcher. Dalinar's big thing after Gavilar's death was protecting Elhokar. What if his boon was that Elhokar be given the means to protect himself and the boon given was a Nahel bond, but because Elhokar doesn't have his act together yet the spren (and I agree, they're probably cryptics) haven't been able to bond properly because he doesn't meet their requirements yet, like Shallan losing Pattern for so long. Edit - a new relevant WoB on this Quote Q: Is being a Knight Radiant at all genetic? Because you have Jasnah, Dalinar, and Renarin in the same family. A: It is not genetic, however… Um… Families or people close to one another are more likely. It’s not genetic. So for instance, if everyone were adopted it would still have the same prevalence. Q: Okay, fascinating! A: Um, so there-- Q: [interruption hard to hear] A: Well, there are a couple of reasons for that. One is which, attracting the attention of a spren can mean that other spren are paying attention to that area. There are also things in the Cosmere (the shared universe of them) where people are connected spiritually. Um… and that’s part of the magic as well. So… You are more likely to become a Radiant if you know a Radiant Not highly relevant but at least it confirms that there's nothing surprising about Elhokar, in the middle of so much spren action and with strong spiritual connections to surgebinders, having spren check him out. Edited February 23, 2017 by Extesian New info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted February 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2017 On 2/22/2017 at 7:48 PM, Extesian said: I've wondered if Elhokar's ability, either to see into the Cognitive Realm, or just being on the path to a Nahel bond, has to do with Dalinar's visit to the Nightwatcher. Dalinar's big thing after Gavilar's death was protecting Elhokar. What if his boon was that Elhokar be given the means to protect himself and the boon given was a Nahel bond, but because Elhokar doesn't have his act together yet the spren (and I agree, they're probably cryptics) haven't been able to bond properly because he doesn't meet their requirements yet, like Shallan losing Pattern for so long. Edit - a new relevant WoB on this Not highly relevant but at least it confirms that there's nothing surprising about Elhokar, in the middle of so much spren action and with strong spiritual connections to surgebinders, having spren check him out. I think and I'm not certain that Dalinar visited the night watcher before gavalars death. He visited the night watcher when elhokar was crown prince and let the silversmiths died. He fixed the situation when he got back from the night watcher. I'm not gunna quote exactly but he tells kalladin that he was away when kalladin was in prison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArborealEtymologist Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 On 2/22/2017 at 8:23 PM, Chinsukolo said: Some time I wonder if in addition to him possibly seeing spren (reference your above quote) - that maybe he's unconsciously drawing stormlight at times. Maybe his armor wasn't weakened as he thinks in his fake assassination attempt. Maybe he drew the stormlight himself to compensate for some other aspect/injury of the attack. We've seen other budding surgebinders draw unconsciously before. Can't write it off as he RAFO'd it, but this is supposed to be very difficult. (http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1088) Reads to me like it is unlikely an untrained person would be able to do it unconsciously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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