Who Named the Shards

[Bromo_Sapien]

As the title says, who named the Shards? It seems as if Hoid and other Yolenites of that time all refer to each other by their given names (at least, in the Letters, Hoid and The Recipient call everyone by their actual names and I don't have my Mistborn books to see about Leras and Ati and Harmony). 

 

But who decided to call Ati's Shard "Ruin" as opposed to "Change"? Or Rayse's "Odium"? Or Tanavast's "Honor"? They seem... slanted, and not based on the person (after all, Rayse was a good man). It has to be someone Realmatically aware to an extremely large degree, since they know the very nature of these gods, not just their short term goals and accomplishments, which means more so than Khriss and Nazh. A head honcho at Silverlight maybe? A new Yolenite?

[Pagerunner he/him]

5 minutes ago, Bromo_Sapien said:

As the title says, who named the Shards? It seems as if Hoid and other Yolenites of that time all refer to each other by their given names (at least, in the Letters, Hoid and The Recipient call everyone by their actual names and I don't have my Mistborn books to see about Leras and Ati and Harmony). 

But who decided to call Ati's Shard "Ruin" as opposed to "Change"? Or Rayse's "Odium"? Or Tanavast's "Honor"? They seem... slanted, and not based on the person (after all, Rayse was a good man). It has to be someone Realmatically aware to an extremely large degree, since they know the very nature of these gods, not just their short term goals and accomplishments, which means more so than Khriss and Nazh. A head honcho at Silverlight maybe? A new Yolenite?

Ati was the good man, not Rayse. Rayse was apparently nasty even before he got a hold of Odium.

I suspect the Shards themselves did come up with the names, since the Shards of Mistborn referred to each other by Intent, rather than by personal name. We won't know for sure, most likely, until Dragonsteel is published, which tells the story of the Shattering.

[Argent he/him]

4 minutes ago, Bromo_Sapien said:

(after all, Rayse was a good man)

Ati was a "kind and generous man," according to Hoid. Rayse was a piece of crem.

I am actually going to guess that was an organic process. Since we know that the Shards' mandates are not entirely fixed (e.g. Ruin and Preservation had ended up with someone who is not Sazed, the resulting double Shard could've something different from Harmony), and are open to their Vessels' interpretation, I assume it was the original Vessels at the moment of, or soon after, the Shattering. Ati and Ruin are particularly interesting here, because it sound like Ati would've chosen a different name (e.g. Change). 

[Bromo_Sapien]

10 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Ati was the good man, not Rayse. Rayse was apparently nasty even before he got a hold of Odium.

That's right, my bad.

 

But that kind of helps my point. As Argent said, I can't imagine Ati calling himself Ruin and I can't imagine Leras willingly aligning himself with someone who calls himself Ruin (discounting my other theory that Leras and Ati were lovers. Def asking about that at Boskone). Same with Rayse: even if Rayse was seen as a terrible person by everyone ( and Hoid is not exactly impartial), I doubt he would see himself as pure hatred. Nobody believes that they themselves are evil.

 

[Argent he/him]

It's not just about how the Vessels view themselves though. Obviously we don't know anything about the actual events that transpired around the time of the Shattering, but I don't think the original Vessels got a blank piece of investiture each and imprinted their own most defining traits on it. I think they each got some somewhat general mandate, which they interpreted specifically. So it's not like Rayse got a ton of investiture and decided that he would use it to become the embodiment of hate; I think it's more likely that he got "god's own divine hatred" and his mind interpreted it as "Odium" (as opposed to Hate, or Antipathy, or Mild Dislike). Honestly, I think another Vessel might have turned the same Shard into Envy. 

This doesn't solve the Ati-Ruin problem, however. But then, I don't think there is much of a problem. Ati could've been a kind man, but he had also been a man who believed everything must eventually come to an end. Given that (vague) aspect of Adonalsium's power, I don't find it too difficult to imagine him interpreting it as the power to bring the world to a closure. He doesn't need to feel a desire to destroy everything. In fact, as I try to put myself in his shoes, I could see him picturing himself almost as a caretaker of the world, the one who will watch over it and all the things in it, and ultimately - in the end - embrace them. 

Yes, the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Ati could've seen his chunk of Adonalsium's power as Ruin. Other names - such as Entropy or Change - feel too weak for a man who is constantly aware that everything and everyone around him is slowly but irreversibly headed towards oblivion. 

[+Extesian he/him]

18 minutes ago, Argent said:

It's not just about how the Vessels view themselves though. Obviously we don't know anything about the actual events that transpired around the time of the Shattering, but I don't think the original Vessels got a blank piece of investiture each and imprinted their own most defining traits on it. I think they each got some somewhat general mandate, which they interpreted specifically. So it's not like Rayse got a ton of investiture and decided that he would use it to become the embodiment of hate; I think it's more likely that he got "god's own divine hatred" and his mind interpreted it as "Odium" (as opposed to Hate, or Antipathy, or Mild Dislike). Honestly, I think another Vessel might have turned the same Shard into Envy. 

This doesn't solve the Ati-Ruin problem, however. But then, I don't think there is much of a problem. Ati could've been a kind man, but he had also been a man who believed everything must eventually come to an end. Given that (vague) aspect of Adonalsium's power, I don't find it too difficult to imagine him interpreting it as the power to bring the world to a closure. He doesn't need to feel a desire to destroy everything. In fact, as I try to put myself in his shoes, I could see him picturing himself almost as a caretaker of the world, the one who will watch over it and all the things in it, and ultimately - in the end - embrace them. 

Yes, the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Ati could've seen his chunk of Adonalsium's power as Ruin. Other names - such as Entropy or Change - feel too weak for a man who is constantly aware that everything and everyone around him is slowly but irreversibly headed towards oblivion. 

I still suspect that Ati took a dangerous shard as part of a deal with Leras to minimize it's influence by starting a planet together with (mostly) balance. But not sure if there's evidence otherwise? Whereas Rayse definitely seemed to choose hatred as he "became what we made him, which is what he wished to become" (I'm paraphrasing).

[CosmereQuestioner]

Alot of it isn't CHOICE of the holder per se as much as their approach.  The original 16 had intent, and the holders tended to influence it (though were more influenced BY it.) I would imagine that Harmony could have had R/P and the combination could have been "strife" or "conflict" instead of harmony, but having 2 shards of such opposite intents probably gave him more flexibility in controlling them (and we can see he's still somewhat limited in what he can do by having such opposite shards.) In the case of ruin, perhaps Ati took what could have been interpreted as "destruction" and simply made the best of it, resulting in ruin. Or perhaps the 16 came apart exactly as they are now...afterall, they are 1/16th of the powers of creation, and the holders mere mortals til ascension.

Edited February 9, 2017 by CosmereQuestioner

[Rage_Fortress he/him]

Maybe Ruin was like Alcatraz's breaking talent. Perhaps he looked past progressive change and all he saw was Ruin when he took it.

[rock soup]

Maybe the power of the shards latched onto the personality types closest to their Intent?

Ati might have been an anarchist, Ive known a few of them who are lovely people. Thus Ruin who was a kind man.

Tanavast may have been the most honorable? Maybe married to Cultivations vessel? We know they were an item. The honorable husband and his cultivating wife maybe.

We know that Odium was a hateful man before the he took the Shard. Although thats Hoids (if he is the author of the letter) opinion of him so that might be biased.