Yata he/him Posted February 19, 2017 Report Share Posted February 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: Trellium has only been seen to steal physical quadrant abilities. (I was trying to find a pattern. I feel that it can't (or shouldn't) do what Atium does as that diminishes the latter.) Hope that helps. We don't know what Attributes the Chimeras' Spike had, neither if the Spikes some guys (I will not tell more to avoid Spoilers) had were made of Trellium or mundane metals (I think they will use Trellium to avoid Harmony's interference if possible). Notice also that Atium could steal all the attributes and better than any other metal (less initial lost) this give him an uniquie propriety. But actually we don't even know if what we call "trellium" is a pure godmetal or a godmetal alloy so any proof and counter proof is probably far to be meaningfull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Note the word 'seen.' All the attributes we know it's stolen have been physical quadrant. When we know it's stolen something that isn't we can revisit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voiceless One he/him Posted February 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Why is Trellium being mentioned here? So far as I can tell, it is not related to how Lerasium operates when used as a metalmind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ataraxian Wist she/her Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 On 2/10/2017 at 11:56 AM, hwiles said: I'm not sure we're ever likely to see a bead of lerasium on Scadrial again since that would allow for the creation of a mistborn, as well as the subsequent breeding of more mistborns. Further, if we did see a bead of lerasium, it would seem almost foolish for whoever found it to do anything other burn it immediately ... But... If we're going to venture into the realm of baseless speculation, I'd like to see lerasium and its alloys to delve into some as yet unexplored feruchemical territory. More abstract attributes like Empathy where storing and tapping could move a person along the spectrum between being a sociopath and being fantastic at intuitively understanding the feelings of others. Or something like Intelligence, which in this case would refer to the speed at which one is able to "learn" and thereby permanently grow new neural pathways rather than being in reference to storing "mental speed" which would be more along the lines of, "how quickly one can send and receive signals along existing neural pathways." Before you try to poke holes, yes, I understand that these aren't perfect models. I think they would be fun feruchemical powers to explore, even if they're unlikely to ever appear on screen...Maybe we'll get to see some atium-alloys in the Lost Metal though, Marsh has way more than he needs and he never struck me as a really selfish person... Empathy is stored in Duriluminminds. The intelligence thing is interesting though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeshadow227 Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Sazedezas said: Empathy is stored in Duriluminminds. The intelligence thing is interesting though. Connection is stored in Duralumin, not Empathy, although the two attributes might seem similar, they have a lot of differing applications, such as Connection being able to, by changing your Connection to a place, translate languages, limited to the native language of the land you are in at the time. On 2/19/2017 at 2:09 AM, Yata said: We don't know what Attributes the Chimeras' Spike had, neither if the Spikes some guys (I will not tell more to avoid Spoilers) had were made of Trellium or mundane metals (I think they will use Trellium to avoid Harmony's interference if possible). Notice also that Atium could steal all the attributes and better than any other metal (less initial lost) this give him an uniquie propriety. But actually we don't even know if what we call "trellium" is a pure godmetal or a godmetal alloy so any proof and counter proof is probably far to be meaningfull I personally believe that the Chimera's attributes were from animals, such as Dogs or Wolves, considering their physiology and probable mental state based on their actions. Hmm...what would happen if you used animal traits in Hemalurgy? Can you even use animal attributes? What would happen if you spiked an animal, such as a dog or horse, with a charged spike? Edited February 23, 2017 by Shadeshadow227 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Staccato he/him Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) On February 11, 2017 at 2:31 AM, Spoolofwhool said: I think it has been said that atium focuses on temporal powers and another quadrant while lerasium focuses on the remaining two. I've been thinking along the same lines too. Allomantically speaking atium's power is temporal and lerasium - with its I endow thee allomancy, go forth and whatever - is undoubtedly enhancement. Flip it over to feruchemy and temporal becomes physical hybrid while enhancement is spiritual. Which fits like a glove! Atium stores physical age in the same manner as feruchemical gold (health). Therefore, since everything follows a pattern here - lerasium will store an as of yet unknown spiritual attribute. @hwiles Since atium's closest comparison in allomancy is gold and it has similar effects feruchemy-wise, I have to conclude that lerasium by this same logic would mimic duralumin since its the closest to its effects. Empathy and Connection are close, very close, and I think this is very much a possibility. Also, I have this feeling that since feruchemy is the middle ground that it will dilute the power of a god metal like how Atium being the universal spike in Hemalurgy ends up with age (impressive, but who wants to live forever? - I don't) in feruchemy. Therefore, lerasium, the universal metal to be burned in allomancy has to come up with something less with power. Maybe stability? Sanity? Peace of mind? Intuition? (Edited because I just want to say if it was Intuition I can see why nobody ever bothered learning its feruchemical use.) Edited February 24, 2017 by Mr. Staccato 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 I don't understand the reason for a godmetal to Need to be "overpowered" Just because is a godmetal. It may happen that a godmetal gives a weird effect but quite useless. This isn't a videogame where the powers need to be balanced or something like that 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Staccato he/him Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Yata said: I don't understand the reason for a godmetal to Need to be "overpowered" Just because is a godmetal. It may happen that a godmetal gives a weird effect but quite useless. This isn't a videogame where the powers need to be balanced or something like that Godmetals being "overpowered" has never smelled right to me. I agree. A lot of people think that since Lerasium's Allomantic use was to turn someone into a Mistborn then Feruchemically it would somehow be something like a Ferring who can store power itself and like compound it or whatever. And it never seemed correct to me since as best as I understood it the powers associated with the godmetals were never intended to work that way (or in fact, in any way at all). There was a WoB somewhere, I don't know where it is but it stated that when someone burns Atium they don't actually look into the future, it only seems that way because it is impossible to fully translate the power of Ruin through allomancy. Godmetals ARE powerful, but the process of using it - as I understand it - cannot fully manifest. Atium's seeing into the future deal is just a side effect. Now, Lerasium may translate into Allomancy because it is that of Preservation, but we have no concrete idea where Feruchemy comes from. The best many have postulated is that it is either 50/50 to Preservation and Ruin, or something inherent to Terris itself. Therefore, it's only safe to say that whatever power Lerasium has when it comes to Feruchemy it won't function right. So yes, it is very much possible that we'll end up with a weird, and useless effect (Storing Intuition!). I for one am already expecting that Lerasium is Feruchemically... well, not worthless, per say, but definitely odd and quirky and yes a little impractical. Edited February 24, 2017 by Mr. Staccato Put in italics and also because of general stupidity in my part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YungDankBlast he/him Posted September 17, 2017 Report Share Posted September 17, 2017 On 2/23/2017 at 11:55 PM, Yata said: I don't understand the reason for a godmetal to Need to be "overpowered" Just because is a godmetal. It may happen that a godmetal gives a weird effect but quite useless. This isn't a videogame where the powers need to be balanced or something like that I agree that Lerasium doesn't have to have some amazingly overpowered Feruchemical ability, but I feel like it does need to balance against that of Atium's Feruchemical ability in some way simply because Feruchemy is the balance between those two shards. However, despite my feelings that it needs to be balanced, I think the most likely option is that there is some sort of contrast or balance between the Feruchemical powers of Atium and Lerasium, but Lerasium's ability is, as you said either useless or simply unusable due to its nature. It doesn't seem to me that Lerasium will ever come up as a Feruchemical option in the novels though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Ati he/him Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 I have an idea, but not only is it crazy and mostly based on speculation, but it contains major spoilers for both Bands of Mourning and Secret History, so... SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS I think that Kelsier's spike is made out of Lerasium. As far as we have seen, there aren't any spikes which can allow someone to pull themselves out of the Cognitive realm and give them a Physical body. Unless there is a metal which is directly related to a Shard whose whole purpose was to keep things in a state of permanent non-decay. This can also explain how Kelsier could still be alive after all these years. Since his Cognitive self doesn't fade away, he can go in that realm, store whatever attribute Lerasium stores, come back and stay in the Physical realm using that metal mind. I know there is literally no proof of this but it's the only thing I could add to this part of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 15 minutes ago, Aon Ati said: I have an idea, but not only is it crazy and mostly based on speculation, but it contains major spoilers for both Bands of Mourning and Secret History, so... SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS I think that Kelsier's spike is made out of Lerasium. As far as we have seen, there aren't any spikes which can allow someone to pull themselves out of the Cognitive realm and give them a Physical body. Unless there is a metal which is directly related to a Shard whose whole purpose was to keep things in a state of permanent non-decay. This can also explain how Kelsier could still be alive after all these years. Since his Cognitive self doesn't fade away, he can go in that realm, store whatever attribute Lerasium stores, come back and stay in the Physical realm using that metal mind. I know there is literally no proof of this but it's the only thing I could add to this part of the forum. It's stated by a WoB that Kel's spike gives "nothing special" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aon Ati he/him Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 40 minutes ago, Yata said: It's stated by a WoB that Kel's spike gives "nothing special" Ah nuts, I really liked that theory. Well, thank you for telling me about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 'Gives nothing special' is not the same as 'does nothing.' I personally think it's made of Atium. I think Lerasium has one specific powerful but very limited hemalurgic use, and degrades quickly. Specifically, I think it steals human sentience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 6 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: 'Gives nothing special' is not the same as 'does nothing.' I personally think it's made of Atium. I think Lerasium has one specific powerful but very limited hemalurgic use, and degrades quickly. Specifically, I think it steals human sentience. What do you considerate "human sentience" ? Because depending on the answer this could be impossible. I am aganist your point (mainly the fast degrade) but we are just talking of speculation so your is as good as mine ...Probably when we will discovered more about Trellium's Hemalurgy, we could figure better a possible profile for Lerasium's Hemalurgy. By the way, what is the point in having an Atium Spike in Era2 ? Reproduce another Godmetal's effect ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Atium doesn't degrade, which seems a good enough reason to me... My personal belief is that the spike acts similar to a Nahel bond. What the spike contains is important, but the ability it grants (if it is an ability) isn't. I think the type of spike and it's position is what is important. By sentience, I mean the extra Preservation in a Scadrian. I think it degrades quickly because, like allomantic Atium, the power would be coming from the innate investiture in the metal. Atium burns fast, and a Lerasium spike would lose its store quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: Atium doesn't degrade, which seems a good enough reason to me. This is false, Atium degrades as the others metals, the only real benefit is the Atium Spikes have is a better Stealing efficiency...therefore the Spike loses less power in the Stealing, so it simply start with more Charge than another metal spike. 15 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: My personal belief is that the spike acts similar to a Nahel bond. What the spike contains is important, but the ability it grants (if it is an ability) isn't. I think the type of spike and it's position is what is important. Do you think a Spike actually steal the whole quadrant and where you place on the reciver decides the Power Gifted ? Because I am quite sure there are WoB aganist and SoS too disproves this. 15 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: By sentience, I mean the extra Preservation in a Scadrian. I think it degrades quickly because, like allomantic Atium, the power would be coming from the innate investiture in the metal. Atium burns fast, and a Lerasium spike would lose its store quickly. Ok understood, if that is what you mean with Sentience....All Metal Spikes stole it. The Preservation's extra bit has not a specific purpose (except the Allomantic potential) it's the higher sum of Innate Investiture the Humans have to gave them the sapience. You could obtain the same effect with a Ruin's extra bit. In this context all the Spikes already steal it as they stole part of the victim's Innate Investiture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Atium spikes do degrade much slower though. In world they are believed not to degrade. This is a good enough reason. I think you are misunderstanding me. Where the spike is placed has a lot to with what kind of Hemalurgic construct you are creating. Position is as important as the hemalurgic charge. My theory is that Kell's spike mimics a Nahel bond in some respects; it does so by making him a hemalurgic construct. Yes, my theory is that it steals ALL the extra Preservation from a person's spirit web. Which is unique to it. But the spike would degrade very rapidly and the uses are limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak he/him Posted October 21, 2017 Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 On 06/02/2017 at 11:50 PM, The Voiceless One said: I have found no hints about what lerasium would do if used as a metalmind, but I think that it would allow the storage of allomantic strength. I'm currently thinkin that since lerasium is preservations metal it allows the storage of the Flow of Time. i.e. possibly similar to allomantic Bendalloy and cadmium or possibly full up time travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Awakened Sloth he/him Posted June 13, 2018 Report Share Posted June 13, 2018 On 2/6/2017 at 5:50 PM, The Voiceless One said: I have found no hints about what lerasium would do if used as a metalmind, but I think that it would allow the storage of allomantic strength. I suspect that it would store the ability to heal your spiritweb, It allows the manipulation thereof in other instances. On 10/21/2017 at 11:21 AM, Dahak said: I'm currently thinkin that since lerasium is preservations metal it allows the storage of the Flow of Time. i.e. possibly similar to allomantic Bendalloy and cadmium or possibly full up time travel. Found this WoB, there is to be no full time travel in the cosmere. Xluxaeternax Is the chronology through the whole cosmere fairly linear, or are there some Interstellar-relativity timey-wimey stuff at play? Brandon Sanderson Relativity is in play for sure, but I am not allowing time travel into the past in the cosmere. So while you might find places that move at slower/faster speeds, and while foreseeing future timelines is in play for sure, nobody will not be pulling serious time travel shenanigans. source: Arcanum PS. What is the best way to insert WoBs here? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainKing Posted June 14, 2018 Report Share Posted June 14, 2018 On 2/19/2017 at 3:00 AM, Kingsdaughter613 said: Trellium has only been seen to steal physical quadrant abilities. (I was trying to find a pattern. I feel that it can't (or shouldn't) do what Atium does as that diminishes the latter.) Hope that helps. But Trellium is also a God metal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted June 14, 2018 Report Share Posted June 14, 2018 17 hours ago, The Awakened Sloth said: PS. What is the best way to insert WoBs here? Create a "Quote Box" using the quote button (between the link and code buttons). Go to Arcanum and hit the "Copy" button on the WOB you want. Paste the WOB into the "Quote Box." P.S. Double posting is discouraged - it's better to edit to add more content to your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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