Any more Mistborn?

[Blue Skies]

So I've been wondering about Mistborn, specifically actual full blooded mistborn. Are they still possible in the second era? Suit seemed to indicate that it was only a matter of time for a full blooded feruchemist to be born and based on the fact that there are ferrings and twinborn that doesn't sound so far fetched. But when it comes to allomancers and the possibility of a new mistborn....well that's been a question that has been nagging at me and from what I've read seems to be a point that everyone has ignored, putting aside suits attempt to "create" a mistborn through hemalurgy.

Its for that reason that I asked. One theory is that Hoid has a bead of Lerasium, maybe he was intending to bring back mistborn (although that doesn't seem likely). Although if he did give the Lerasium bead to someone, probably Wax, would that mean that he reintroduced the possibilty of mistborn or that someone would become a single mistborn unable to bread any more. What's people's thoughts on this? As usual sorry for the lack of eloquence in my explanation and general mishmash of words.  

P.S. As an aside I think that allomancy is becoming weaker, by the last era it will probably be incredibly rare. Which will make for some tense stuff if any more "evil" shards are around then. 

P.S.S Another thought about the above statement. Harmony is new to the whole godhood business, it's entirely possible that he just hasn't figured out a way to create mistborn. But as a counter to that he may also be allowing Allomancy/ Hemalurgy/ Feruchemy to die out naturally. No idea why he would do that just a thought. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Avalon Blue

[Sallin Zeras]

10 minutes ago, Avalon Blue said:

So I've been wondering about Mistborn, specifically actual full blooded mistborn. Are they still possible in the second era? Suit seemed to indicate that it was only a matter of time for a full blooded feruchemist to be born and based on the fact that there are ferrings and twinborn that doesn't sound so far fetched. But when it comes to allomancers and the possibility of a new mistborn....well that's been a question that has been nagging at me and from what I've read seems to be a point that everyone has ignored, putting aside suits attempt to "create" a mistborn through hemalurgy.

Its for that reason that I asked. One theory is that Hoid has a bead of Lerasium, maybe he was intending to bring back mistborn (although that doesn't seem likely). Although if he did give the Lerasium bead to someone, probably Wax, would that mean that he reintroduced the possibilty of mistborn or that someone would become a single mistborn unable to bread any more. What's people's thoughts on this? As usual sorry for the lack of eloquence in my explanation and general mishmash of words.  

P.S. As an aside I think that allomancy is becoming weaker, by the last era it will probably be incredibly rare. Which will make for some tense stuff if any more "evil" shards are around then. 

P.S.S Another thought about the above statement. Harmony is new to the whole godhood business, it's entirely possible that he just hasn't figured out a way to create mistborn. But as a counter to that he may also be allowing Allomancy/ Hemalurgy/ Feruchemy to die out naturally. No idea why he would do that just a thought. 

I hope the Mistborn return, but it isn't likely it will be Hoid's fault, he isn't the kind of guy to waste very valuable resources on someone other than himself. If it ever happens, I think it will be because Harmony will grant someone Allomancy, probably because of the fight he will inevitably have against Trell.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew

[Inquisitor #5]

Well, seeing as Brandon has said that Era 2 (1980s-ish) is planned to feature a Mistborn serial killer (unless I totally mistaken)...

And about Hoid's bead... Well, he'll have a very hard time giving it away, let's say.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Preservation (seeing as that's the base Shard Allomancy comes from) doesn't typically create Mistborn.

Also also, Harmony did make Spook Mistborn while he ascended so if he had appropriate motivation he'd presumably be able to make more.

Oh, and if I'm not misremembering it Feruchemy and Allomancy interfere with each other, Spiritual genetics wise, and as such you can't (normally) have Full Feruchemy and Mistborn-ness overlapping.

OK, last thing, I'm also quite certain that the (or at least one) reason Allomancy is weaker after the Final Empire era is because Sazed tweaked it so that Snapping wouldn't require as much trauma.

 

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[Argent]

10 minutes ago, Avalon Blue said:

P.S.S Another thought about the above statement. Harmony is new to the whole godhood business, it's entirely possible that he just hasn't figured out a way to create mistborn. But as a counter to that he may also be allowing Allomancy/ Hemalurgy/ Feruchemy to die out naturally. No idea why he would do that just a thought. 

He not only made Spook a full Mistborn pretty much immediately after Ascending, he also fixed the Spiritual damage he had done to himself on his path to savantism. Not to mention that he changed the entire process of snapping, which strikes me as a far more difficult thing to do. So Harmony's inexperience definitely doesn't affect his ability to create Mistborn.

11 minutes ago, Avalon Blue said:

P.S. As an aside I think that allomancy is becoming weaker, by the last era it will probably be incredibly rare. Which will make for some tense stuff if any more "evil" shards are around then. 

Allomancy is getting weaker - and it has been since the days of Rashek's Ascension. Harmony might be able to do something about this though, if he finds his world in peril.

13 minutes ago, Avalon Blue said:

So I've been wondering about Mistborn, specifically actual full blooded mistborn. Are they still possible in the second era?

In theory? Sure. It's just a matter of probability. 

[Faceless Mist-Wraith]

I was thinking that if there were any mistborn, they would be among Spook's descendants. After all, he received his allomancy straight from Harmony himself, so he was likely at least a little bit stronger than the average mistborn. This would likely translate to a stronger allomancy gene, especially since he likely married Beldre. Since mistborn were still being born 1000 years after the originals swallowed the lerasium beads, and only 300 years have currently passed, we can assume that there is at least a decent genetic possibility of one of his descendants being a mistborn, provided that none of them married anyone with feruchemist genes.

[Weltall]

So far nothing Brandon has said (not that he's said much, mind you) contradicts the statement that the next era will have a Mistborn serial killer so it seems like they'll definitely return for that and there are several mechanisms by which they could emerge. If Spook had descendants who don't have any Terris blood (and thus none of the sDNA interference that Allomancy and Feruchemy have with each other) then it's possible one of them might someday snap and find out that hey, they're able to use all the metals. Or Harmony could deliberately make someone a Mistborn like he did with Spook. Or more lerasium could turn up; its 'rewrite spiritweb' properties and the Ars Arcanum entries in Era 2 on the potential of godmetal alloys in Feruchemy hint at other uses we might see someday. Or the theory that the Set has a long-term plan to breed a Mistborn could be correct (recent developments there notwithstanding), which could even explain how a Mistborn serial killer might come to exist. Or any combination of the above or some more things I probably haven't thought of.

6 minutes ago, Faceless Mist-Wraith said:

I was thinking that if there were any mistborn, they would be among Spook's descendants. After all, he received his allomancy straight from Harmony himself, so he was likely at least a little bit stronger than the average mistborn.

Brandon has said that Spook was made less powerful than a lerasium mistborn and by implication weaker than the Lord Ruler had made himself with the power of the Well.

www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=727#4

[Faceless Mist-Wraith]

I did not know about that. Do we know how Spook compared to other mistborn?

Also, since the next book is titled "The Lost Metal" there is a high probability that one of the god metals will come into play. Both Lerasium and Atium fit the bill, and there's still the unknown effects of Harmonium/ettmetal.

[Sallin Zeras]

I would really like for Harmony to create a metal called Sazium, which grants full allomancy and full feruchemy to anyone who burns it

[tobar14]

Just now, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

I would really like for Harmony to create a metal called Sazium, which grants full allomancy and full feruchemy to anyone who burns it

Harmonium

[Inquisitor #5]

We still don't know what burning that would do.

And seeing how volatile the stuff is...

 

 

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[Ward]

1 hour ago, Avalon Blue said:

One theory is that Hoid has a bead of Lerasium, maybe he was intending to bring back mistborn (although that doesn't seem likely). Although if he did give the Lerasium bead to someone, probably Wax, would that mean that he reintroduced the possibilty of mistborn or that someone would become a single mistborn unable to bread any more. What's people's thoughts on this? As usual sorry for the lack of eloquence in my explanation and general mishmash of words.  

 

I believe Brandon has hinted very strongly that Hoid ate the Lerasium. Either that or he's purposefully conflating correlation and causation when he tells us you've seen Hoid using allomancy.

[Spoolofwhool]

5 minutes ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

We still don't know what burning that would do.

And seeing how volatile the stuff is...

 

 

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It would probably explode upon contact with your saliva or any aqueous membrane you have internally. And since it has the volatility of cesium supposedly, that would probably kill. So swallowing it as a metal wouldn't work, you would probably need some harmonium piercings, but if you sweat or someone throws water on you...

[Inquisitor #5]

Just now, Spoolofwhool said:

It would probably explode upon contact with your saliva or any aqueous membrane you have internally. And since it has the volatility of cesium supposedly, that would probably kill. So swallowing it as a metal wouldn't work, you would probably need some harmonium piercings, but if you sweat or someone throws water on you...

Yeesh...

 

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[Faceless Mist-Wraith]

The piercings probably wouldn't work because of the water in you blood. So you can't even use Hemalurgy. Unless you want to stab someone with an exploding spike. Which kind of defeats the purpose...

[Inquisitor #5]

Earrings are piercings, and people don't bleed from the holes made for those once they've healed.

 

ETA: Though sweat would still be a (potential) problem.

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Edited December 12, 2016 by Inquisitor #5

[Demiandre]

Yeah, best be sure you are dehydrated enough before ingesting it

The Lost Metal is either Lerasium, which disappeared with Hoid, or Atium, which is kept by Ironeye. Without it, he would die, no ? (I think Brandon said he had the last of it, and used it to stay alive so far).

I wonder if an Atium spike could steal the spiritweb of a human. Thus stealing the "Mistborn power" from someone.

@Ward, I don't think Hoid ate it. However, he seems to be using Allomancy at some point. Maybe he ate an Alloy of Lerasium, or got himself some nice medallion ?

[Jedal]

I never heard a thing about the Full Feruchemist/Mistborn being impossible. That dashes my dreams a little. Is there any specific reason why someone could not have an expanded spiritweb (from a spren or something else) and be able to hold the full powers of both?

[Inquisitor #5]

13 minutes ago, Demiandre said:

The Lost Metal is either Lerasium, which disappeared with Hoid, or Atium, which is kept by Ironeye. Without it, he would die, no ? (I think Brandon said he had the last of it, and used it to stay alive so far).

Seems about right, my boxings are on Atium, personally. Atium being (pretty much) mythological at this point and known of by people in general. So if someone, say, went on an expedition for "The Lost Metal" they'd probably be going for Atium.

And WOB is that the God-metals could be distilled from the mists, IIRC. So, last for now.

13 minutes ago, Demiandre said:

I wonder if an Atium spike could steal the spiritweb of a human. Thus stealing the "Mistborn power" from someone.

@Ward, I don't think Hoid ate it. However, he seems to be using Allomancy at some point. Maybe he ate an Alloy of Lerasium, or got himself some nice medallion ?

That's really interesting, who knows what Atium Hemalurgy could accomplish with a bit of tweaking... hmm...

And I'd not even considered Hoid having a medallion for it before. NICE!

9 minutes ago, Jedal said:

I never heard a thing about the Full Feruchemist/Mistborn being impossible. That dashes my dreams a little. Is there any specific reason why someone could not have an expanded spiritweb (from a spren or something else) and be able to hold the full powers of both?

I suppose there's no reason it couldn't happen if you used a workaround (Hemalurgy, TLR's self-empowering at the Well, etc.) but I'm fairly confident that it couldn't happen naturally, i.e. that you're born with both.

 

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Edited December 12, 2016 by Inquisitor #5
Edited to add reply to Jedal

[Spoolofwhool]

24 minutes ago, Faceless Mist-Wraith said:

The piercings probably wouldn't work because of the water in you blood. So you can't even use Hemalurgy. Unless you want to stab someone with an exploding spike. Which kind of defeats the purpose...

Yeah, I don't see how harmonium hemalurgic spikes would work since it requires blood contact.

19 minutes ago, Demiandre said:

I wonder if an Atium spike could steal the spiritweb of a human. Thus stealing the "Mistborn power" from someone.

All hemalurgic spikes steal a piece of a the spiriweb. Atium can steal any attribute. 

15 minutes ago, Jedal said:

I never heard a thing about the Full Feruchemist/Mistborn being impossible. That dashes my dreams a little. Is there any specific reason why someone could not have an expanded spiritweb (from a spren or something else) and be able to hold the full powers of both?

Are you talking about naturally? Naturally, being a fullborn, possessing all the powers of allomancy and feruchemy is impossible. The gene for allomancy interferes with the gene for feruchemy. Using the Well of Ascension however, Rashek (TLR) turned himself into a fullborn, and other methods, such as hemalurgy should theoretically make it possible to create someone analogous to a fullborn. Inquisitors were probably the closest we had. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Eki]

1 hour ago, Argent said:

Allomancy is getting weaker - and it has been since the days of Rashek's Ascension. Harmony might be able to do something about this though, if he finds his world in peril.

Isn't there a WoB on Allomancy basically being about as diluted as it will be, reaching some kind of equilibrium?

18 minutes ago, Demiandre said:

The Lost Metal is either Lerasium, which disappeared with Hoid, or Atium, which is kept by Ironeye. Without it, he would die, no ? (I think Brandon said he had the last of it, and used it to stay alive so far).

Yeah, but Harmony could create more if he wanted to. Probably.

Also, remember that there is a recent WoB that

Spoiler

Ettmetal is Harmonium, as many suspected.

 

[Jedal]

Just now, Spoolofwhool said:

 

Are you talking about naturally? Naturally, being a fullborn, possessing all the powers of allomancy and feruchemy is impossible. The gene for allomancy interferes with the gene for feruchemy. Using the Well of Ascension however, Rashek (TLR) turned himself into a fullborn, and other methods, such as hemalurgy should theoretically make it possible to create someone analogous to a fullborn. Inquisitors were probably the closest we had. 

I forgot about Rashek. But without any Lerasium, there really is no way to become a Fullborn. I'm thinking that if someone had conflicting sDNA then it could be resolved by forging a bond with a spren. (since I seem to remember reading a WoB saying that spren increase the spiritweb)

[Spoolofwhool]

12 minutes ago, Jedal said:

I forgot about Rashek. But without any Lerasium, there really is no way to become a Fullborn. I'm thinking that if someone had conflicting sDNA then it could be resolved by forging a bond with a spren. (since I seem to remember reading a WoB saying that spren increase the spiritweb)

Stormlight Archive Things

Spoiler

Maybe. A spren bond does certainly change the spiritweb. However, we're talking about completely separate systems here. I doubt one would really be able to adequately resolve the issues of the other. If we compare physical genetics, it's probably like each has genes overlapping on the same chromosome, so having one prevents the other from reaching its full potential. Bonding a spren is like adding more chromosomes, but it isn't going to fix the overlap issue. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Inquisitor #5]

3 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

All hemalurgic spikes steal a piece of a the spiriweb. Atium can steal any attribute. 

I think the intent here was the stealing of the entire Mistborn package in one go.

 

4 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Are you talking about naturally? Naturally, being a fullborn, possessing all the powers of allomancy and feruchemy is impossible. The gene for allomancy interferes with the gene for feruchemy. Using the Well of Ascension however, Rashek (TLR) turned himself into a fullborn, and other methods, such as hemalurgy should theoretically make it possible to create someone analogous to a fullborn. Inquisitors were probably the closest we had. 

Well, don't we think alike.

You're not a Shard, are you? *points to username*

 

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[Spoolofwhool]

2 minutes ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

I think the intent here was the stealing of the entire Mistborn package in one go.

Ah. No, I don't think that's possible It's possible the inquisitors were wrong about how to use atium since they thought it only stole allomantic temporal powers and weren't aware it could take anything, but personally I don't think Mistborn is a single power, but rather a collective set of a number of powers, since you can remove the powers individually. 

2 minutes ago, Inquisitor #5 said:

Well, don't we think alike.

You're not a Shard, are you? *points to username*

No, I'm a spool.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Spoolofwhool

[Jedal]

Just now, Spoolofwhool said:

Maybe. A spren bond does certainly change the spiritweb. However, we're talking about completely separate systems here. I doubt one would really be able to adequately resolve the issues of the other. If we compare physical genetics, it's probably like each has genes overlapping on the same chromosome, so having one prevents the other from reaching its full potential. Bonding a spren is like adding more chromosomes, but it isn't going to fix the overlap issue. 

I don't really think of it in terms of genetics. To me it seems like there is a specific amount of "space" alloted for a single person. While the majority is filled by personality and physical features, some parts can be filled with Investiture. Rashek was naturally Invested with Feruchemy, and "added" more space when he became a Sliver(his spirit web was expanded). So, in theory, if someone has the potential to be a Fullborn, but is without the space, the addition of a spren would increase the space, allowing for a person to be Fullborn and Surgebinder.