skaa he/him Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) I was re-reading the Ars Arcanum the other day, particularly the section about fabrials, when I re-stumbled upon this part about Spanreeds: Conjoiners: By infusing a ruby and using methodology that has not been revealed to me (though I have my suspicions), you can create a conjoined pair of gemstones. The process requires splitting the original ruby. The two halves will then create parallel reactions across a distance. Spanreeds are one of the most common forms of this type of fabrial. We're all probably aware of spanreeds at this point, but recent information we've gotten about Words of Radiance have led me to re-analyze the words I quoted above, as well as the rest of "On the Creation of Fabrials". We know that the fabrials are another way to access the Surges apart from Surgebinding or Voidbinding, and we also know that Soulcaster fabrials in particular mimicked the Soulcasting ability of some Lightweavers and Elsecallers, so I believe that studying the fabrials (their effects, the gemstones they use, etc.) would let us gain insight into how the different Knights Radiant used their Surges. Table of Contents Part I: Pairing Fabrials and the Table of Gemstone Pairs Part II: Altering Fabrials Part III: Warning Fabrials Conclusion: How to Create a Fabrial Part I: Pairing Fabrials and the Table of Gemstone PairsLet's consider the Ruby gemstone, associated with both conjoiner fabrials and the Order of Dustbringers. The interesting thing about conjoiners is that even though the original ruby has been halved into two separate ruby pieces, they still act as one.In Surgebinding and Realmatic terms, the effect of the Division Surge on those two ruby halves is significantly decreased. Reducing division increases unity.Now check out this relevant tidbit from Dalinar's Purelake vision: The knight stood before the rising creature, which stood thirty feet tall, dripping water. A calm, white light began to rise from her. It reminded Dalinar of the light of spheres. Stormlight. She raised her Shardblade and charged, stepping through the water with uncanny ease, as if it had no purchase on her. Perhaps it was the strength of Shardplate....Beyond him, the fight began in earnest, water splashing, rock grinding. Soldiers approached bearing hammers, and unexpectedly, these men now also glowed with Stormlight, though far more faintly. Some people have already speculated that the Knight Radiant in that vision was a Dustbringer (Surges: Division and Friction), and that she was somehow making the non-KR soldiers glow with Stormlight. The other theory was that the soldiers were non-KR Surgebinders who just so happened to take in Stormlight at the same time.But if we assume that Conjoiners actually mimic one aspect of Dustbringers, then one very neat solution presents itself: The Dustbringer was manipulating the Surge of Division. Specifically, she was decreasing the spiritual division between herself and her soldiers, giving all of them some level of spiritual synchronization.If Parshendi could perform supernaturally synchronized feats (which probably use the Division Surge somehow as well), wouldn't it be awesome if the Dustbringers of old (and maybe even Skybreakers) could do the same?But how about Reversers? They also seem to manipulate Division, increasing the division between objects. Reversers: Using an amethyst instead of a ruby also creates conjoined halves of a gemstone, but these two work in creating opposite reactions. Raise one, and the other will be pressed down-ward, for instance. In the vision, the Knight could run through water with "uncanny ease". I'm betting that she did it by increasing her own Division from the water, making herself "more separate" from it, so that to her the water no longer interacted with her feet, allowing her to run as if the water wasn't there.Increasing and decreasing Division, two ways of manipulating the same Surge, performed by the same Knight Radiant. Pretty impressive for a vision scene, eh?Back to fabrials, why do Reversers use Amethyst instead of Ruby, if Ruby is the Dustbringer gemstone? If you look at the Knights Radiant chart, Ruby and Amethyst are actually connected to each other, and they are on opposite sides of the chart. This could indicate that every gemstone has a designated partner, one that has a reverse effect when manipulating a particular Surge. One gemstone decreases ("Pulls"?) the influence of a Surge, while its opposite gemstone increases ("Pushes"?) it.Also, the fact that Ruby fabrials can manipulate Division, while Smokestone ones cannot so far as we know (even though Skybreakers can supposedly manipulate Division), suggests that each Order has a primary Surge (despite being able to bind two Surges). Edit: Here's a more thorough theory on why an Order must have a Primary Surge (the Surges are to KR Orders as the Attributes are to Essences).Given all these things, I made a table showing each Order, their Primary Surge, and those Surges' "pulling" and "pushing" gemstones (pardon the Allomantic terminology), or gemstone pairs:Order# | Essence | Order Name | Primary Surge | Surge-"Pulling" Gemstone | Surge-"Pushing" GemstoneJez | Zephyr | Windrunners | Pressure | Sapphire | Garnet?Nan | Vapor | Skybreakers | Gravitation | Smokestone | ZirconChach | Spark | Dustbringers | Division | Ruby | AmethystVev | Lucentia | Edgedancers | Friction | Diamond | Topaz?Palah | Pulp | Truthwatchers | Growth | Emerald | HeliodorShash | Blood | Lightweavers | Illumination | Garnet | Sapphire?Betab | Tallow | Elsecallers | Transformation | Zircon | SmokestoneKak | Foil | Willshapers | Transportation | Amethyst | RubyTanat | Talus | Stonewards | Cohesion | Topaz | Diamond?Ishi | Sinew | Bondsmiths | Tension | Heliodor | EmeraldAs you can see, there are still unknowns and uncertainties. For one, we don't even know what kind of spren need to be trapped for a fabrial to access a particular Surge. And we don't know what the extra connections between Sapphire, Diamond, Garnet, and Topaz are supposed to mean in terms of fabrial creation.But there are a number of interesting things as well. For example, notice that the Surge-"Pushing" Gemstone for Transformation is apparently Smokestone. Well! The gemstones set into Jasnah's Soulcaster were enormous, some of the largest that Shallan had ever seen, worth many spheres each. One was smokestone, a pure glassy black gemstone... Jasnah's Soulcaster fabrial may be fake, but she probably at least made it look believable, so we can bet that those rare multi-function Soulcaster fabrials that Shallan talked about have Smokestone in them, and now we know why! Perhaps the other Soulcaster fabrials with limited functionality use Zircon instead? If not, what could a Transformation-"pulling" effect look like? What other interesting things can you find in my table of Fabrial pairs? Which types of fabrial do you think should be discovered next? I hope to post the second and third parts of my General Fabrial Theory by the end of the week. In the meantime, feel free to discuss! Edited April 6, 2014 by skaa 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Also, you'll notice that the Order names tend to match their Primary Surge quite well. Windrunners for (atmospheric) pressure manipulation, Edgedancers for friction-related awesomeness, Lightweavers for illumination, etc. Because of this, I don't think Bondsmiths could possibly be the Kak Order, since "Bondsmith" doesn't really go well with the Transportation Surge. I agree! Order 10 for Bondsmiths all the way. As to the theory: Division apparently is used to break stones at a touch (unless the unknown Surge does that). I can't imagine it being multi-purpose enough to also un-divide people (to give them Stormlight), not to mention how abstract that is when all the Surges so far are 'physical' in nature (as they affect the environment, even if they affect spiritual things like Gravity/Transformation). So I really really really doubt that Division has anything to do with the soldiers Dalinar sees obtaining Stormlight. I think that the fact you have to divide the rubies and Dustbringers (Order 3 with ruby as a gem) having Division is a coincidence, though I don't think it's a coincidence that amethysts (which are opposite rubies on the chart) do the opposite thing of rubies. Good observation there. I fully expect 'cooling' fabrials to use an amethyst, because heating fabrials use a ruby. I also think smokestones have nothing to do with Soulcasting fabrials, because Pushing-Pulling is a thing from Mistborn and we haven't seen it from any Surges yet. Also, I highly doubt that any modern fabrials have reproduced the effects of Surges. We would have seen those types of fabrials become common. If they could make Soulcasters or Regrowthers or any other Surge-fabrial, we would know about it. (Unless those that could make Soulcasting fabrials worked for the Ghostbloods, but then why would they want Shallan's back?) It would be too useful to keep private. If they can't reproduce Soulcasters (despite having some around to reverse engineer) then I will be surprised if they managed to make a Division fabrial. Edited January 28, 2014 by Moogle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodfalcon he/him Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Something to note: The gem that bonded the Shardblade in the new Adolin chapter was a ruby. You have to tap it to release your bond with your Shardblade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted January 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Welcome to the Bondsmiths for Ishar Club, Moogle! I do believe that the Surges are multi-purpose. For example, we've seen two ways of using the Growth Surge: the normal "Growth" ability and the "Re-Growth" ability. Those two things may both involve biological things, but healing something is still quite different from merely accelerating its growth, especially since Re-Growth can apparently heal Shardblade damage. So, I don't think it's a stretch that Division can mean division in any of the three Realms. I agree that Spirit-Synchronization is quite abstract, but given how Basic Lashing changes one's spiritual connection with the planet, and how Soulcasting makes objects see themselves as different in the Cognitive Realm in order for their whole Identity to literally transform, I don't think Spiritual transfer of Stormlight is all that weird compared to the rest. After all, the Dustbringers' Essence is the Spark, which is associated with the Soul. Shouldn't it at least have some spiritual abilities? As for Soulcasting fabrials, I'm okay with modern Roshar not being able to replicate the originals (if that's even the case). The point is that Soulcasting fabrials exist, and they can access Transformation Surge the same way ancient Knights Radiant once did. By the way, just to avoid confusion, it was my understanding that the ten Surges are the actual fundamental forces on Roshar. Any attempt to create a "magical" effect (e.g. what all fabrials do) will involve manipulating the Surges somehow. In fact, from the following dialogue between Jasnah and Shallan (WoR, chapter 3), I'm positive that the Ten Surges' existence is already commonly known among Rosharian scholars: "Alai says that the spren are fragments of the powers of creation. A lot of the scholars I read agreed with that." "It is one opinion. What does it mean?" Shallan tried not to let herself be distracted by the spren on the floor. "There are ten fundamental Surges--forces--by which the world works. Gravitation, pressure, transformation. That sort of thing..." So, yes, fabrials of all types do manipulate the Surges. Edit: Thanks to Bloodfalcon for noting how the ruby pommel of Salinor's Shardblade was somehow connected to his spiritual bond with the Blade. Also, thanks to Moogle for reminding me of other types of ruby fabrial. I shall check them out later! Edited January 29, 2014 by skaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elementalist he/him Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 While I mostly subscribe to this theory, I believe that the Knight most likely used Friction rather than division to get through the water so easily. It fits with what we've seen of the surge from Lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis he/him Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 It's a theory. I think it's more speculative than you give it credit for, but a theory anyway. But there are a number of interesting things as well. For example, notice that the Surge-Pushing Gemstone for Transformation is apparently Smokestone. Well! Jasnah's Soulcaster fabrial may be fake, but she probably at least made it look believable, so we can bet that those rare multi-function Soulcaster fabrials that Shallan talked about have Smokestone in them, and now we know why! Perhaps the other Soulcaster fabrials with limited functionality use Zircon instead? This is the part I'm going to contend. All ten polestones are used in Soulcasting to create the ten essenses. Jasnah has a smokestone because she's going to turn the rock into smoke. She uses zircon to turn wine into a crystal and ruby to turn a man into fire. She and Shallan both use garnets to craft blood. Emeralds are the most expensive gem expressly because they can be used to Soulcast food. Different gems Soulcast different things, whether you're a Surgebinder or using a fabrial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) It's a theory. I think it's more speculative than you give it credit for, but a theory anyway. This is the part I'm going to contend. All ten polestones are used in Soulcasting to create the ten essenses. Jasnah has a smokestone because she's going to turn the rock into smoke. She uses zircon to turn wine into a crystal and ruby to turn a man into fire. She and Shallan both use garnets to craft blood. Emeralds are the most expensive gem expressly because they can be used to Soulcast food. Different gems Soulcast different things, whether you're a Surgebinder or using a fabrial. Indeed. But a fabrial must have at least one gemstone that has a spren trapped in it. I was assuming that in real Soulcasting fabrials, the extra gemstones only serve in focusing the Intent, and that only one gemstone acts the center, the one determining that the Surge of Transformation will be used, the one that actually contains the spren.It's also possible that all the gemstones in the Soulcaster have trapped spren, in which case my theory falls apart. Edit: As for the idea that the Dustbringer was binding the Friction Surge to run through the water, I imagine that lessening the friction of the water will result in sliding movement ("Edgedancing"), which would actually be a hindrance to running. Am I missing something? Edited January 29, 2014 by skaa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Indeed. But a fabrial must have at least one gemstone that has a spren trapped in it. A modern fabrial must, you mean. Soulcasters are old and may act on completely different principles. No gems were harmed when Shallan's Soulcaster got cut, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) A modern fabrial must, you mean. Soulcasters are old and may act on completely different principles. No gems were harmed when Shallan's Soulcaster got cut, I believe.WoB, please?Anyway, even if old fabrials don't have spren, the question remains: Do all of the gemstones on the fabrial dictate what Surge will be used? Or is there a central gemstone dictating that? Edited January 29, 2014 by skaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) WoB, please? Not quite a WoB: Shallan fished in the safepouch inside her sleeve, bringing out her father's broken Soulcaster. It had been sheared in two places: across one of the chains, and through the setting that held one of the stones. She inspected it in the light, looking--not for the first time--for signs of that damage. The link in the chain had been replaced perfectly and the setting reforged equally well. Even knowing exactly where the cuts had been, she couldn't find any flaw. Unfortunately, repairing only the outward defects hadn't made it functional. Shallan also had three gemstones in her Soulcaster. Their family was struggling for money; had a gem been broken, they would not have replaced it (since there was going to be a swap, and they would need to know what type of gems Jasnah's Soulcaster had). Edit: This may not be the case. Shallan apparently bought multiple new gemstones to match Jasnah. Soulcasters use the ten different types of gems to Soulcast different things. Gems in Soulcasters shatter sometimes. I have a hard time believing spren are in the gems that power the Soulcaster, because they'd eventually all end up shattered. Maybe there's a gem inside the metal of the Soulcaster? Or I don't know - Navani says that it could just be that the setting is misaligned, which implies the metal of the Soulcaster might be where the spren is (if they use spren). Edited January 29, 2014 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) @Moogle: Even if they didn't have spren, there will have to be some method of indicating that a fabrial should use a particular Surge (in this case, Transformation). It's my theory that you'll have to use either a smokestone or a zircon, cut it a particular way (maybe even trap a spren in it... or not) before the fabrial can even be capable of using the Transformation Surge. Only once you've done that can you start adding gemstones (in a specific geometric configuration, I'd bet) depending on the desired Soulcasting result. Edited January 29, 2014 by skaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 @Moogle: Even if they didn't have spren, there will have to be some method of indicating that a fabrial shiuld use a particular Surge (in this case, Transformation). Why do you think this? The Regrowth fabrial Dalinar sees contains a heliodor and topaz, neither of which are associated with Growth, but which are associated with flesh and bone - exactly the things 'targeted' by the fabrial for healing. Both examples we have of the old-style fabrials do not have gems linked to the order/Surges in question, though of course all the new-style ones do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Why do you think this? The Regrowth fabrial Dalinar sees contains a heliodor and topaz, neither of which are associated with Growth, but which are associated with flesh and bone - exactly the things 'targeted' by the fabrial for healing. Both examples we have of the old-style fabrials do not have gems linked to the order/Surges in question, though of course all the new-style ones do. According to the table I made, Heliodor would actually boost the Growth Surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 According to the table I made, Heliodor would actually boost the Growth Surge. And it also targets flesh, just like smokestone makes things into smoke for Soulcasters. I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing why you'd pick on the gemstones opposite each Order's Surge to make a fabrial attuned to that Surge. If I were making a fabrial to Soulcast, I'd expect it to use a garnet and a zircon in order to single things out. If we use your primary-Surge theory (again, something I'm confused on, because it seems to me like neither of each order's Surges is primary or secondary), a Zircon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted January 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) And it also targets flesh, just like smokestone makes things into smoke for Soulcasters. I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing why you'd pick on the gemstones opposite each Order's Surge to make a fabrial attuned to that Surge. If I were making a fabrial to Soulcast, I'd expect it to use a garnet and a zircon in order to single things out. If we use your primary-Surge theory (again, something I'm confused on, because it seems to me like neither of each order's Surges is primary or secondary), a Zircon. For that matter, why do ruby conjoiners decrease Division? This is actually why I chose to use the Allomantic "Pull/Push" terminology. An emerald Growth fabrial would "pull" the Growth surge inwards, into itself, because it is attracted to that Surge. The opposite would be true for heliodor Growth fabrials, so they would actually boost that Surge.It would be interesting to see an emerald Growth fabrial, though. Will it reverse aging, or merely stop it? Oh, and about the Primary Surge theory, I admit it's not very strong, since my only basis is the lack of Smokestone Division fabrials that I know of. I only like it because each Primary Surge fits its Order's name (in so far as we know the name) better than the Order's other Surge. Edited January 30, 2014 by skaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11thorderknight Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 The Primary/Secondary Surge thing is the only part that I'll get on board with. If you look at the names of the ten orders, each name is much more closely associated with one of the surges than the other, and it seems to always be the counter-clockwise surge. The only ones that are even a little bit ambiguous are Windrunners and Skybreakers, since Windrunner seems to refer to flight, which is done with gravity (and we're now told, apparently, that it's surge 2) and skybreaker seems to reference division. But every single other order expressly references only the counter-clockwise surge. With regard to Soulcasters...it's pretty clearly described in WoK that the gems are interchangeable and each polestone is used to specifically target its essence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.S.A.M.K.M Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 DArkeyes dont get shards, even king body guards, but his paranoia may be great enought, to ensure they get half shards. A windrunner armed with a shield like that, could take down a shardbearer, with only minimal skiil. That gem on the blade, what happens if destroyed during battle? seems like it may be a weakness, as gems are fragile. if diferent gems allow for different aspects of soul casting, does that mean the gems provide different abilities for each order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted January 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Part II: Altering FabrialsIn Part I, I used the Allomantic terms "Pulling" and "Pushing" to describe the processes of decreasing and increasing a Surge, respectively. I understand that this can make some readers uncomfortable, and I'm sorry, but I'm going to keep doing it for now since it really is an elegant way of describing Surgebinding for me. When a gemstone is of a certain Essence, then it will absorb the Surge of that Essence, pulling that Surge towards itself, thereby decreasing its effect. If the gemstone is of the opposite Essence, then the opposite effect happens. The Surge is repelled by the gemstone, pushing it outwards, increasing its effect.Rosharian scholars use a similar pair of terms: "diminishing" and "augmenting". But those terms are used to describe the effects of two specific classes of fabrials: the Diminishers and the Augmenters, collectively known as the altering fabrials. Like any fabrial, Augmenters and Diminishers increase or decrease a Surge, and thus the table I created in Part I applies to them as well. But unlike pairing fabrials (which I already discussed) and Alerters (which we'll discuss in Part III), altering fabrials actually change their surroundings, not just themselves. Let us look at a few of them (in spoiler tags to control the length of this post). Temperature Fabrials First, there are the heating and cooling fabrials. We know that the heating fabrial uses a ruby, and so under my theory the cooling fabrial would use an amethyst (thanks to Moogle for pointing that out above!).At first I thought that these fabrials augment/diminish the Surge of Division somehow, and I even formulated a complex explanation for how this could be done, but I realized that there is an even simpler possibility: they are in fact using the Surge of Transportation. Heat is the transfer of energy. By increasing the rate of energy transfer between objects, it is possible to heat things up.And what is the Transportation-Pushing gemstone under my theory? Ruby, of course. Re-Growth Fabrials Another altering fabrial is the Re-Growth fabrial used by what seems to be a Stoneward in Dalinar's Starfalls chapter: QuoteDalinar lurched, turning to see a woman in delicate Shardplate kneeling beside him, holding something bright. It was a topaz entwined with a heliodor, both set into a fine metal framework, each stone as big as a man's hand... She raised a hand and touched his forehead.Ice washed across him. Suddenly, his pain was gone.The woman reached out and touched Taffa. The flesh on her arm regrew in an eyeblink; the torn muscle remained where it was, but other flesh just grew where the chunks had been torn out. The skin knitted up over it without flaw, and the female Shardbearer wiped away the blood and torn flesh with a white cloth. Yep, that's definitely Re-Growth, which is done by manipulating the Growth Surge. What is the Growth-Pushing gemstone in my table? Heliodor, which is present in that fabrial. Great! But what is that topaz doing there? I believe that it was acting as an additional focus. Focus for what? For the Body Focus.Theoretically-speaking, Re-Growth can affect all the Body Focuses (though I'm not sure how it applies to inhalation or exhalation). By default, a Re-Growth heliodor fabrial will fix the person's flesh (Sinew/Heliodor), but by combining the fabrial with another gemstone associated with a specific Body Focus, the fabrial will be able to heal that Body Focus as well.So, the topaz in that fabrial is for people with broken bones (the Body Focus for Talus/Topaz). If a ruby was added to the bunch, then it will be able to heal limbs that were hit by a Shardblade, since Shardblades damage the soul itself. Clock Fabrials Clock fabrials are powered by Smokestone: The town’s only fabrial clock sat here on the counter. The small device bore a single dial at the center and a glowing Smokestone at its heart; it had to be infused to keep the time. Nobody else in the town cared about minutes and hours as Lirin did. The motion of time (which is what clocks measure) can be seen as a transformation of the past into the present. Smokestone is the Transformation-Pushing gemstone. I got this insight from researching about tallow (the Essence with the Primary Surge of Transformation) and learning that it was once used to make candles, and that candles were once used to tell time. Measuring time might sound like something an Alerter Fabrial would do, but note that alerters (which are powered by Heliodor) do not manipulate objects other than themselves. A Smokestone clock fabrial, on the other hand, manipulates the dial connected to it so that it moves regularly with a set timing. This implies that the Transformation Surge can be used not only to transform one object into another, but also to induce objects into manifesting certain behaviors at certain times. I don't think we've seen Jasnah manipulate objects in this way, but I think we've seen something that might be affected by this kind of Transformation: Cusicesh the Protector. Soulcaster Fabrials Lastly, let us talk about Soulcasters. They aren't mentioned in the Ars Arcanum, but since they are the best fabrials for altering things, I'm going to put them under the altering fabrial category.In Part I, I mentioned how Soulcasting fabrials must use either a Smokestone or a Zircon, since those are the Transformation gemstones under the Primary Surge theory. Some of the people above have commented, however, on how Soulcasters in fact can use any of the ten gemstones (or "Polestones"), depending on which target Essence is desired.Certainly I believe that Lightweavers or Elsecallers don't need smokestones other than for Soulcasting the Vapor Essence. But a fabrial would require some way to dictate what Surge to use (apart from other details), and I believe that each fabrial, no matter how many gemstones it may have, has at least one gemstone that represents that particulare Surge.Unfortunately, we've only ever seen three Soulcaster fabrials in the Way of Kings: The Ghostbloods' broken one... With a swift move of her hand, Shallan tucked the folded robe under her safearm, then shoved her hand into her safepouch and popped out the intact smokestone from her father's Soulcaster. ... Jasnah's fake one... The gemstones set into Jasnah's Soulcaster were enormous, some of the largest that Shallan had ever seen, worth many spheres each. One was smokestone, a pure glassy black gemstone. The second was a diamond. The third was a ruby. ... and the one used by Taravangian's minion... The figure opened his hand, revealing a gemstone suspended in his palm by a chain wrapped around his fingers....The chained gemstone on the man's palm flashed. The wall vanished, turned to smoke. A Soulcaster. ... so we'll have to wait several weeks more before we might get the chance to see other types of Soulcasting fabrials. If any of them turns out lacking a smokestone (or at least a zircon), then my theory is disproved.But if that's the case, well... I've been fooled by a lot of coincidences. Edited April 6, 2014 by skaa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Let me repeat my uncomfortableness with the Pulling/Pushing theorem. However: you manage to keep finding coincidences, so props to you there. Credit for managing to find no counterexamples if nothing else. I don't have a whole lot to add that I have not already said, but a flamespren is trapped in the emerald in the pain knife. Your theory makes no mention of why, when I think that this is the most important part of modern fabrials. The spren change everything! And why would a flamespren not be in a ruby? (Answer: flamespren in rubies are responsible for heating fabrials?) A flamespren is associated with fire which is associated with the Soul, which could be why the pain knife causes pain (it's stabbing your soul). Also, your second part might deserve an entirely new thread. Edited January 30, 2014 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted January 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) Let me repeat my uncomfortableness with the Pulling/Pushing theorem. However: you manage to keep finding coincidences, so props to you there. Credit for managing to find no counterexamples if nothing else. I don't have a whole lot to add that I have not already said, but a flamespren is trapped in the emerald in the pain knife. Your theory makes no mention of why, when I think that this is the most important part of modern fabrials. The spren change everything! And why would a flamespren not be in a ruby? (Answer: flamespren in rubies are responsible for heating fabrials?) A flamespren is associated with fire which is associated with the Soul, which could be why the pain knife causes pain (it's stabbing your soul). Also, your second part might deserve an entirely new thread. Thanks again for the comments, Moogle. I'm not sure if you noticed my recent edit regarding the pain knife. Perhaps I was editing it while you were reading the previous version, but I've already revised my analysis of the pain knife, and I now mention the flamespren as well. Oh, and I'm not sure it'd be wise to make a different thread for all the parts of my theory (I expect to post about two more parts), but if lots of people start commenting on Part II then I'll start a new thread for it. Edited January 30, 2014 by skaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 30, 2014 Report Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) You did apparently edit it while I was reading! Again, I can't help but be uncomfortable by the gemtype Pulling on its own Surge. Say flamespren trapped in a ruby were responsible for heating fabrials. What kind of spren are trapped in amethysts to make cooling fabrials? Why do flamespren affect the soul in pain knives but heating fabrials affect the Physical? If flamespren trapped in rubies make for heating fabrials, you'd think they'd heat the soul (as opposed to heating water/air/everything else). Would you predict flamespren are not used in heating fabrials? Why is it the gem type and not the spren type that determines the Surge influenced? Why does the spren influence the target in the case of pain fabrials (targeting the soul) but gemtype determine target in things like Regrowth fabrials? I'm interested in seeing predictions from you, as opposed to making your theory to fit previously known facts. We can see how your theory fares in WoR! If you make tons of right predictions, I will (grudgingly ) support your theory. Edit: Pain reduction fabrials (painrials) use a ruby, but pain enhancement fabrials (pain knife?) use emeralds with flamespren. Can you work this into your theory? http://coppermind.net/wiki/Painrial Edited January 30, 2014 by Moogle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted January 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Again, I can't help but be uncomfortable by the gemtype Pulling on its own Surge. Well alright, I'll just use the "augmenting/diminishing" terminology if you want. Say flamespren trapped in a ruby were responsible for heating fabrials. What kind of spren are trapped in amethysts to make cooling fabrials? Why do flamespren affect the soul in pain knives but heating fabrials affect the Physical? If flamespren trapped in rubies make for heating fabrials, you'd think they'd heat the soul (as opposed to heating water/air/everything else). Would you predict flamespren are not used in heating fabrials? Why is it the gem type and not the spren type that determines the Surge influenced? Why does the spren influence the target in the case of pain fabrials (targeting the soul) but gemtype determine target in things like Regrowth fabrials? I think the spren probably indicates the Essence to work on, not the Surge to work with. I think that secondary gemstones in a fabrial just serve as overrides for the fabrial's default Essence. Anyway, I believe that whatever spren is used in an augmenter should also be used in its equivalent diminisher. Heating fabrials actually heat the surrounding physical environment, while pain knives only affect the mind (interesting... I just realized that the Body Focuses don't separate the spirit and the mind; there's just the soul). A heating fabrial can actually burn you if you put enough Stormlight into it. The pain knife will just give you excruciating pain, even if the blades just touch your skin. I'm still trying to organize my thoughts on the details of fabrial creation. I plan to put those in the concluding part of my general theory. But let me give a summary of what I have so far. The Intent of each fabrial machine has the following general details: What Surge to use (e.g. Division) What fabrial category to use (e.g. Diminisher) What the Essence is (e.g. Spark) - might be just for altering fabrials What the Realm is (e.g. Cognitive) What the Realm sub-category is (e.g. Sensations) Tell me if you thought of other things to consider. Anyway, I'm pretty confident that the type of gem depends on what Surge and what fabrial category you are aiming for. I suspect that the spren choice has something to do with the general Essence of what you want to achieve, but it's possible that other Essence-related details are determined some other way. After determining the gemstone and the spren, it's just a matter of adjusting the Surgepattern by cutting the gemstone in certain ways, first to attract the spren, and second to make the Intent even more specific (e.g. which realm, which sub-category, which sub-sub-category, etc.). I guess you can further adjust the Surgepattern by adding gemstones. One use for this is to make your fabrial modular. For example, a pain knife does something quite specific: delivering bursts of anti-Regrowth to the soul. But if you had a modular anti-Regrowth machine containing a central emerald fabrial with a, say, Pulp-related spren, then you can add a ruby to produce pain, or a diamond to diminish eyesight, or even let the emerald work on its own and... um... make hair less shiny! Wouldn't that be awesome? Also, I'm starting to suspect that the type of metal used to hold the gemstone is also important, somehow. But my thoughts on that are still unclear. Pain reduction fabrials (painrials) use a ruby, but pain enhancement fabrials (pain knife?) use emeralds with flamespren. Can you work this into your theory? Gladly! If you notice the examples I gave in my list of Intent details above, those were actually my prediction for what a painrial does. Before anything else, though, I'd like you to take a look at Navani's demonstration of the painrial: "Oh, this? It's a type of painrial. Here, let me show you." ... Adolin raised his hand, turning it around. "The pain is gone." "But you can still feel, correct?" Navani said in a self-satisfied way. Adolin prodded his palm with the fingers of his other hand. "The hand isn't numb at all." From the looks of it, Navani was proud that they finally found a way to remove pain without numbing the patient. This implies that they've made other types of painrial before, and that those acted by just numbing the pain of the target. I'd bet that those painrials are heliodors with flamespren in them. Anyway, let us construct Navani's special painrial using the configuration I indicated above: Division+Diminisher+Spark+Sensation Division+Diminisher means we want to make different objects become more "united" somehow. The Division-diminishing gemstone is ruby. Spark+Sensation I believe is the sensation of pain. Flamespren are associated with Spark, though I'm not sure why they are better-suited than other Spark-related spren (I imagine there are other types). So, ruby with flamespren. A skilled Artifabrian would be able to use that configuration and cut the ruby to produce the following Intent: Increase the user's tolerance for pain such that he becomes desensitized to it. In other words, Navani's painrial isn't really removing the pain. It merely makes the user ignore the pain as if it's just a normal part of him. In this way, he could still feel other things, instead of being numbed from all sensations. Does that work? By the way, when I read that Navani's painrial is supposed to have brass legs of some sort, I remembered that brass has the Allomantic effect of Soothing people's emotions. I have no idea if using brass actually helps in the purpose of painrials, or if it's just a coincidence. Edited February 18, 2014 by skaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted February 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) (Is double-posting considered excusable if it's my own thread and I'm adding a wall of text that doesn't belong in my last post? If not, apologies to the mods.) Part III: Warning Fabrials I have delayed writing about the final category of fabrial, the Warning Fabrials, because of my own doubts about the nature of the heliodors in Alerters. According to my theory, they are either Growth-pushing fabrials or Tension-pulling fabrials. Unfortunately, the details of the Tension Surge has not yet been revealed. And even more unfortunately, being able to detect things using the Growth Surge doesn't really make any sense to me. Anyway, I'm writing this because I now believe that the Tension Surge grants sensing ability. My reasoning can be found in my thread about Attributes and Surges. That thread also tries to show more thoroughly that there is such a thing as a Primary Surge (which is essential to my fabrial theory), so please check that out. Since heliodor is the gemstone associated with Tension, it is attracted to the Tension Surge, "pulling" it towards itself, causing it to glow. I believe that alerter heliodors were cut specifically to prevent altering effects so all you see is the glow without any sensation-diminishing effect. Lastly, I invite you guys to look at the emotion bracelet diagram. Emotion bracelets are alerters, so we can assume that those ten gemstones are heliodors. Notice how they are arranged in the familiar Double Eye pattern, and how for each emotion, there is a contrary emotion paired with it on the opposite side of the board, just like how gemstones are paired (and how the Attributes are paired). It seems that the pairing of opposites is a common theme in Essence-based Investiture. Edited February 18, 2014 by skaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick he/him Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 As an aside, I invite you guys to look at the emotion bracelet diagram. Emotion bracelets are alerters, so we can assume that those ten gemstones are heliodors. Notice how they are arranged in the familiar Double Eye pattern, and how for each emotion, there is a contrary emotion paired with it on the opposite side of the board, just like how gemstones are paired (and how the Attributes are paired). It seems that the pairing of opposites is a common theme in Essence-based Investiture.Except there isn't anything in the books to say that all Warning Fabrials are heliodors. And since they are in a Double Eye, isn't a better assumption that it's using all the gemstones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa he/him Posted February 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Except there isn't anything in the books to say that all Warning Fabrials are heliodors. And since they are in a Double Eye, isn't a better assumption that it's using all the gemstones? From the WoK Ars Arcanum: WARNING FABRIALS There is only one type of fabrial in this set, informally known as the Alerter. An Alerter can warn one of a nearby object, feeling, sensation, or phenomenon. These fabrials use a heliodor stone as their focus. I do not know whether this is the only type of gemstone that will work, or if there is another reason heliodor is used. It's possible that the heliodor focus is just the upper-middle gemstone in the emotion bracelet, I guess. But then, the illustration states that all ten gemstones in the bracelet are fabrials (as opposed to simple gemstones), so I'm assuming that they are all Alerter focuses, meaning they are all heliodors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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