FeatherWriter she/her Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Just to keep this one on topic, @kari-no-sugata, we should probably keep discussion of Renarin's visions in that thread. This one's for Ym and Edgedancer! I'll go respond over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari-no-sugata Posted December 6, 2016 Report Share Posted December 6, 2016 Though we obviously won't be seeing more of Ym, I remember reading a WoB the other day that this isn't the last we've seen of Stump. How much more we'll see I don't know but it might be enough to confirm that Renarin is not unique... or alternatively (by lack of evidence to the contrary) suggest that he is. We'll probably know by the end of SA3. btw, it seems to me that neither Ym or Stump progressed much as Radiants (yet in Stump's case). They might not even have said the first Oath - I think Kaladin was able to weakly use Surges before he said the first Oath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted December 6, 2016 Report Share Posted December 6, 2016 39 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said: Though we obviously won't be seeing more of Ym, I remember reading a WoB the other day that this isn't the last we've seen of Stump. How much more we'll see I don't know but it might be enough to confirm that Renarin is not unique... or alternatively (by lack of evidence to the contrary) suggest that he is. We'll probably know by the end of SA3. btw, it seems to me that neither Ym or Stump progressed much as Radiants (yet in Stump's case). They might not even have said the first Oath - I think Kaladin was able to weakly use Surges before he said the first Oath. It's not necessarily about saying the first oath, but just emulating what it means. Chances are they had progressed the bonds to the first oath, giving them power over surges, but didn't have much control at that point, as they were just using unconsciously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejopen27 he/him Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 On 12/5/2016 at 6:03 PM, kari-no-sugata said: Though we obviously won't be seeing more of Ym, I remember reading a WoB the other day that this isn't the last we've seen of Stump. How much more we'll see I don't know but it might be enough to confirm that Renarin is not unique... or alternatively (by lack of evidence to the contrary) suggest that he is. We'll probably know by the end of SA3. btw, it seems to me that neither Ym or Stump progressed much as Radiants (yet in Stump's case). They might not even have said the first Oath - I think Kaladin was able to weakly use Surges before he said the first Oath. I agree, in Stumps case, she didn't even realize she was healing people. I've always taken the stance that Renarin embodies the learned ideal of the Truthwatchers and YM (and now Stump) embodied the Giving part. Truthwatchers are the only order (other than maybe Skybreakers and that we know of) that seem to have more than more spren searching for a human to bond withl. Syl says she was the only Honorspren, Wyndel says he was chosen to come, and Pattern says something about being sent. I can't remember what Jasnah says about Ivory. I'm interested if their are one or two other Bondsmiths bonded to the other Godspren yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remodel Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 I was looking for a topic like this! In my opinion Ym is a truthwatcher... but opinions can change. I'm more interested in the fact that Wyndles people considered him as a match for Wyndle. Why was'nt Wyndle paired with Ym? I have some theories... 1. "Mother" (The nightwatcher or Cultivation) orders the Ring to choose Lift for Wyndle. 2. Cultivationspren has low political influence in the Cognetive Realm and "lost" the battle for Ym too the unknown spren of the truthwatchers. 3. Lift was not an option until she went to see the nightwatcher. When she did visit she became the ultimate candidate for Wyndle to bond. Therefor the Ring choose her over Ym. 4. I might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Wax he/him Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 07/12/2016 at 4:57 PM, thejopen27 said: I agree, in Stumps case, she didn't even realize she was healing people. I've always taken the stance that Renarin embodies the learned ideal of the Truthwatchers and YM (and now Stump) embodied the Giving part. Truthwatchers are the only order (other than maybe Skybreakers and that we know of) that seem to have more than more spren searching for a human to bond withl. Syl says she was the only Honorspren, Wyndel says he was chosen to come, and Pattern says something about being sent. I can't remember what Jasnah says about Ivory. I'm interested if their are one or two other Bondsmiths bonded to the other Godspren yet. Wyndle said he was chosen by the ring to be sent here. So, there is this mythical "ring" which decides the bonding....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondesu he/him Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 On 1/14/2017 at 6:42 PM, axcellence said: Wyndle said he was chosen by the ring to be sent here. So, there is this mythical "ring" which decides the bonding....? Fulcrum...it's just one part of...The Ring. (Props to anyone who gets the reference.) The appears likely to be a high council of Cultivationspren, or whatever Wyndle technically is, and wouldn't affect other kinds of spren, but we don't know for sure, I don't think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugo Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) Just to point out something some are missing: just because a spren says they were the only one that came - that doesn't mean there is only one in Roshar now. They go through memory loss trauma as part of crossing over - so anything they say about the spren tactics might be a bit suspect - but more importantly, its out of date. Syl might just be the first honorspren to disobey. Wyndle could have been only the first gardener the ring sent. That info was only good at the point they were last in Shadesmar. Therefore, we cannot assume Ym / Stump are truthwatchers based on what Wyndle thinks about his status. We know he can't see another radiant's spren. It would be really difficult to know if there was another of his type unless they deliberately revealed themselves. Edited January 18, 2017 by Jugo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugo Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 On 17/01/2017 at 4:42 PM, Jondesu said: Fulcrum...it's just one part of...The Ring. (Props to anyone who gets the reference.) Nice of you to chuck that out there. I think each type of spren had their own internal governance. Syl disobeyes a blanket ban by the Stormfather. Cultivation doesn't have a blanket ban though. Highspren are like lighteyes in the spren cities. And Cryptics are interested to the point of sending a researcher on a suicide mission - everyone seems to have distinct backgrounds and motivations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djarskublar he/him Posted January 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 15 hours ago, Jugo said: Just to point out something some are missing: just because a spren says they were the only one that came - that doesn't mean there is only one in Roshar now. They go through memory loss trauma as part of crossing over - so anything they say about the spren tactics might be a bit suspect - but more importantly, its out of date. Syl might just be the first honorspren to disobey. Wyndle could have been only the first gardener the ring sent. That info was only good at the point they were last in Shadesmar. Therefore, we cannot assume Ym / Stump are truthwatchers based on what Wyndle thinks about his status. We know he can't see another radiant's spren. It would be really difficult to know if there was another of his type unless they deliberately revealed themselves. Except for the fact that we have WoB that they are Truthwatchers. Your point about their memory loss stands, but it doesn't actually apply to the Order of Ym and Stump. Before getting WoB, that would have been a good point though. 15 hours ago, Jugo said: I think each type of spren had their own internal governance. Syl disobeyes a blanket ban by the Stormfather. Cultivation doesn't have a blanket ban though. Highspren are like lighteyes in the spren cities. And Cryptics are interested to the point of sending a researcher on a suicide mission - everyone seems to have distinct backgrounds and motivations... I agree with this. With the caveat that the Ring may actually govern multiple types of spren, say perhaps the part that is more of Cultivation. Speaking of, do we have any good reason to believe that the Orders are evenly distributed? I always assumed that they were on something of a sliding scale where there are Honor and Cultivationspren at either end and then spren types in between with a fairly linear shading of H/C ratios. I just questioned that assumption. Maybe the distribution is more like 7 spren that are more of Honor and 3 for Cultivation. I will take this to another thread, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel he/him Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 On 12/5/2016 at 7:44 PM, Spoolofwhool said: It's not necessarily about saying the first oath, but just emulating what it means. This would also help explain how Shallan could have progressed as a Lightweaver at a very young age (she then regresses to the point of almost losing Pattern, then progresses again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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