Sentient Awakened Sword Commands

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

Screw it. "Be a Sword."

That can't possibly go wrong.

[Staenbridge]

Why not stick with something simple like "Cut things"? Aluminium will probably still work for a sheath, and you've got a pretty simple Command to visualise that gives you the thing you want in a sword above all else. 

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

If you held the sword, it might try to cut you too.

[Mage he/him]

I know this command would be more difficult and take more breaths, but what if you modified the command to be "Destroy things that I deem to be Evil". That would at least give the sword a more specific sense of evil, even though you could use this to destroy good by calling it evil.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

6 hours ago, Mage said:

I know this command would be more difficult and take more breaths, but what if you modified the command to be "Destroy things that I deem to be Evil". That would at least give the sword a more specific sense of evil, even though you could use this to destroy good by calling it evil.

As I understand it, the lengths of commands multiplies the number of breaths needed, so making this command any costlier than it has to be is an astronomically large expense. Even two words is absolutely ridiculous, much less eight.

[Karger he/him]

12 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

As I understand it, the lengths of commands multiplies the number of breaths needed, so making this command any costlier than it has to be is an astronomically large expense. Even two words is absolutely ridiculous, much less eight.

Longer commands are not more expensive just more difficult.  Shorter ones are easier to  visualize.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Also more expensive.

[Karger he/him]

5 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Also more expensive.

Evidence?

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Pg 216, Warbreaker

Quote

Vasher placed a hand on the shoulder of his shirt, touching another patch of marble as he formed an image in his mind. "Upon call, become my fingers and grip," he Commanded. The shirt quivered and a group of tassels curled up around his hand. Five of them, like fingers. 

It was a difficult Command. It required far more Breath to Awaken than he would have liked--his remaining Breath barely allowed him the Second Heightening--and the visualization of the command had taken practice...

 

[Karger he/him]

19 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Pg 216, Warbreaker

So?  It is a difficult command and it takes a lot of breath that is correlation not causation.  Nightblood was awakened with two words and 1000 breath.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Karger

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

4 hours ago, Karger said:

So?  It is a difficult command and it takes a lot of breath that is correlation not causation.  Nightblood was awakened with two words and 1000 breath.

So you’re saying the material that he’s awakening is responsible for the cost?

[Karger he/him]

2 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

So you’re saying the material that he’s awakening is responsible for the cost?

According to Vasher. 

Quote

“Creating Type Three BioChromatic entities is what we traditionally call ‘Awakening,’” Vasher continued. “That’s when you create a BioChromatic manifestation in an organic host that is far removed from having been alive. Cloth works the best, though sticks, reeds, and other plant matter can be used.”

and the coppermind

Quote

 

The process generally thought of as Awakening creates Type III BioChromatic entities, a BioChromatic manifestation in an organic host far removed from being alive. Examples include Awakened ropes, cloth, or skeletal remains.

These are between the two extremes of inorganic objects and dead bodies. Therefore, these have the advantage of requiring less Breath (still more than corpses, often over one hundred) to Awaken than inorganic objects while at the same time allowing for Breath recovery. They have the strength to easily strangle people. The more it resembled living beings, the easier it is to be Awakened, so a skilled Awakener would prepare human-shaped and organic clothes for Awakening purposes.^[17] An Awakener who is not a human and has a different shape would have an easier time Awakening something that is similar to them in shape (such as a canine making cloth into the shape of a canine).^[30] When Awakened, it tends to mimic living things, forming muscle-like structures or shape of hand.^[31] They are understandably the most common type of BioChromatic host entities created.^[3] However, other types of BioChromatc hosts are generally more powerful.

 

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Yeah, I know, I was just trying to understand your argument. If the material wasn't the reason the example command I provided was harder, and the length wasn't the reason, what do you propose the reason was?

[Karger he/him]

5 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Yeah, I know, I was just trying to understand your argument. If the material wasn't the reason the example command I provided was harder, and the length wasn't the reason, what do you propose the reason was?

The shape.  The more lifelike the object the easier it is to awaken.  Tassels don't look alive.  Vasher even adds blood to his first lifeless for this reason.

10 minutes ago, Karger said:

The more it resembled living beings, the easier it is to be Awakened, so a skilled Awakener would prepare human-shaped and organic clothes for Awakening purposes

 

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Previously on the page I quoted, Vasher awakened his pants, and there is no comment about it being really expensive breath-wise. Just the more complex command...

Nightblood took so much Breath because he was metal, and Awakening metal is REALLY hard, so please don't use him as a counter-argument.

[Karger he/him]

25 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Previously on the page I quoted, Vasher awakened his pants, and there is no comment about it being really expensive breath-wise. Just the more complex command...

They are likely made of organic material(most cloth is) and they are shaped like part of a living thing(legs).  He is only awakening the tassels which are not shaped like a live thing.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Karger

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Same with his shirt.

[Karger he/him]

1 minute ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Same with his shirt.

He is only awakening tassels. 

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

He touched the shoulder of the shirt, and tassels curled around his fingers. He Awakened the whole shirt.

[Karger he/him]

1 hour ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

He touched the shoulder of the shirt, and tassels curled around his fingers. He Awakened the whole shirt.

Perhaps.  I would not put it past Vasher to have the tassels woven into the shirt out of a different type of thread or in a specific manner for strength when he uses this command.  Also when he awakens his pants latter he has less breath and is in a hurry so he does not drop a heightening and he can't really think about the command much.  Finally you are using one example to put forward a rule that you consider fundamental to a magic system we know little about.  Also the implication of the number of words mattering would make some really weird implications for awakening.  For example what about awakeners who speak Japanese and use the single word Tsujigiri? In English that is several sentences.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

For example what about awakeners who speak Japanese and use the single word Tsujigiri? In English that is several sentences.

I see it as intent based. The more ideas you’re trying to get across, the more breath it takes.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Also when he awakens his pants latter he has less breath and is in a hurry so he does not drop a heightening

He actually awakens his pants BEFORE he does the shirt, as I said in my previous post.

3 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

 

Previously on the page I quoted, Vasher awakened his pants,

 

And yet, he only comments on how specifically the second command took a lot out of him. Not the two together, but specifically the second.

[Karger he/him]

Just now, The Young Pyromancer said:

I see it as intent based. The more ideas you’re trying to get across, the more breath it takes.

SA spoilers

Spoiler

Hoid has no limited breath yet gets across "take care of her." 

 

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Spoilers.

Spoiler

First of all, I don’t think using Hoid as an example of how any one magic system works is going to work very well. Work shoppers are exceptions to a lot of things, especially really old ones. Second, he’s had a lot of time to get very good at awakening, so I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some trick he knows. Third, the command itself is pretty simple in terms of ideas, it’s just really hard to visualize, and the doll is cloth, so it’s easy to awaken. Fourth, Hoid has numerous ways of circumventing investiture requirements. We know that stormlight and breath work really well together, so he probably used that. He also could have had investiture stored in metalminds, or be burning duralumin, or who knows what else.

Overall, the fact that you’re bringing up Hoid as an example of how something normally works shows me that I’ve probably won

/jk

 

[Karger he/him]

2 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Overall, the fact that you’re bringing up Hoid as an example of how something normally works shows me that I’ve probably won

Shrugs.  Vasher is at least as masterful an awakener as Hoid and has access to nearly all the things you just stated. How do you know he does not have some trick with his pants?  Maybe he keeps a lot of extra breath stored their with a half completed command like preloading?  My point was that one example should not be used as evidence.  Your sample size is way too small.  Also think about how complex lifeless are.  They only take on breath and are extremely versatile. 

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

34 minutes ago, Karger said:

  Also think about how complex lifeless are.  They only take on breath and are extremely versatile. 

As we don’t actually know the command used to make lifeless (there was an old one that was really expensive) that’s not a very valid point. And I think at this point we’re going to have to agree to disagree, as we’ve clogged this thread enough already. How about this: we both accept that the next person to come on the thread gets to decide who’s right, and that’s the end of this particular argument (and no asking someone to come on and take your side). Sound fair?