Atium gives the wrong powers (and possibly Lerasium)

[sonwarrior01]

I’m fairly new to the forums, so please show me the link to where this has been brought up before but buried over time. Anyway, after extensive searching through theoryland and the coppermind I’ve come to the conclusion that atium gives the wrong powers.

Atium, as we know, is the physical body of Ruin, who is the polar opposite of Preservation and thus wants to destroy everything. Furthermore, we know from WoB (and possibly Secret Histories, I can’t remember where I got my info) that Ruin cannot see very far into the future. It is not his defining attribute. I find it very odd then, that allomantic atium use allows the user to see into the future while the feruchemical use effectively allows the user to be preserved throughout generations. It seems to me that the physical body of this shard should enable destruction, not preservation and future sight.

In contrast, Lerasium grants the user untold destructive potential. The very opposite of Preservation’s nature.

The only theory I can come up with is that there is a switch in nature from the cognitive realm to the physical realm, but it doesn’t make that much sense to me.

[Eki]

I was sure there was a WoB about this, but I can't find it. If I recall correctly, it said that the effects of a shard's magic don't necessarily reflect their Intent. This is true for other shards too. (For example, changing how gravity acts on you has nothing to do with the Intent of Honor.)

About Lerasium in particular, making a person into a Mistborn seems to be almost... a side effect. What it really does is give your soul a stronger connection to Preservation, which happens to be something that makes you Mistborn (in some ways, the two are the same). There is a little more to it than that, I guess, since apparently you can use Lerasium alloys to create Mistings.

But yeah. That question boils down to if Allomancy itself matches Preservation. Some have argued that it's odd that the magic of Preservation adds energy to the universe (which interestingly enough is the opposite of why you think Lerasium is unfitting for Preservation!), but I would argue that you actually need to add energy to a system to preserve it, or entropy will change it. Regardless, of course, things like pushing and pulling on metals don't have anything to do with the concept of preserving.

Atium would be the same: the actual effect it has, seeing into the future, doesn't have to have anything to do with the Intent of Ruin, just like Soothing or whatever doesn't have anything to do with preserving.

Also, atium Feruchemy doesn't allow someone to live forever, unless it is compounded. Normal atium Feruchemy only allows temporary age manipulation: in the end, you would live just as long.

[Voidus]

The Intent of a Shard has to do with how you gain access to a magic, not what that magic does.

 

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ERIC LAKE ()

Allomancy provides many very dramatic effects, which some have noted is not very much like Preservation. Could you walk me through how Allomancy is of Preservation, though it does dramatic, dynamic things?

BRANDON SANDERSON

One of the 'basics' of the magic in all of the worlds is that the energy of Shards can fuel all kinds of interactions, not just interactions based on their personality/role. I did this because otherwise, the Magics would all be extremely limited.

The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do. So, in Preservation's case, the magic is a gift—allowing a person to preserve their own strength, and rely upon the strength granted by the magic. While Hemalurgy has a huge cost, ending in net entropy.

 

[Spoolofwhool]

3 hours ago, Eki said:

But yeah. That question boils down to if Allomancy itself matches Preservation. Some have argued that it's odd that the magic of Preservation adds energy to the universe (which interestingly enough is the opposite of why you think Lerasium is unfitting for Preservation!), but I would argue that you actually need to add energy to a system to preserve it, or entropy will change it. Regardless, of course, things like pushing and pulling on metals don't have anything to do with the concept of preserving.

Allomancy isn't adding energy to the universe. It's just moving energy from an another source, Preservation's main pool of investiture, into the allomancer, when they burn metals. Afterwards, the investiture returns to Preservation. Also, investiture doesn't have entropy, in theory. 

[Eki]

 

1 hour ago, Voidus said:

The Intent of a Shard has to do with how you gain access to a magic, not what that magic does.
 

I think that was the WoB I was thinking about!

2 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

Allomancy isn't adding energy to the universe. It's just moving energy from an another source, Preservation's main pool of investiture, into the allomancer, when they burn metals. Afterwards, the investiture returns to Preservation. Also, investiture doesn't have entropy, in theory. 

From what we know, Investiture isn't used up. Nightblood might be an exception, but nevermind.

So if the magic creates "normal" energy (which it does, if you push on a coin, it gains kinetic energy), and the Investiture isn't used up, that means energy is added. I forgot about the metals disappearing though, that would decrease the amount of energy, provided that that energy doesn't go somewhere else.

I'm not sure what investiture having entropy would mean, but I just meant normal entropy. The cosmere is supposed to work pretty much like our universe when magic isn't involved.

[nervousnerd]

I've also thought about Atium in relation to how Ruin has been described. He is willing to build up one thing if it can somehow be used to break down two more. In my mind Allomantic Atium is very fitting with Ruin in that it allows one person to fight and potentially destroy many enemies. It might do it through a method that is not similar to his intent but it still can be used to achiece his purpose.

[cometaryorbit]

Also, atium seeing the future I think is just a part of its power, rather like how making Mistborn is by WoB a "side effect" of lerasium. The real effect of atium is to give you a Spiritual Realm glimpse - but at normal strength all that does is a second or so of future sight. Burned with duralumin, though, Elend truly saw (IIRC even mostly entered?) the Spiritual Realm.

[sonwarrior01]

I figured there was a WoB somewhere that addressed this. Thanks everyone for your input.