Honorblades and Nightblood.

[Djarskublar he/him]

So in my reread of WoR, I noticed that Syl said that the Honorblade fed on Szeth's Stormlight. I also gave some serious consideration to why people's eyes smoke when they are killed by a Blade of any type. I also thought about what Nightblood would do on Roshar, and I came to a conclusion.

Nightblood will function almost exactly the same way Honorblades do.

Now, while Heralds will probably get extra perks from their Honorblade than a regular person, as has been discussed elsewhere, I won't dig into that.

Nightblood and Honorblades both feed on Investiture. They both make dark smoke come off the people they kill, if for different reasons. They both grant powers to their wielders (that manifest as Surges on Roshar, or at least, Nightblood might anyway). I can't come up with any reason that Nightblood would function massively differently from an Honorblade, except for the obvious bit about making Investiture inaccessible and cutting on all 3 realms.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

Quote

Outis

Does Nightblood act as an Honorblade?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO

Source

But honestly, I don't see too much to argue with here. I think the Honorblades feed on investiture specifically to grant the surges, but that's also speculation.

[Djarskublar he/him]

9 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Source

But honestly, I don't see too much to argue with here. I think the Honorblades feed on investiture specifically to grant the surges, but that's also speculation.

I agree with said speculation. Nightblood eats Breaths to make you a master of combat etc. I knew this question had been RAFO'd, but I haven't seen any comparisons with the black smoke coming from the affected targets.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

4 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

but I haven't seen any comparisons with the black smoke coming from the affected targets.

Is there actually smoke coming off of them? I never read it as smoke coming from the eyes, but I have misinterpreted before

[Spoolofwhool]

45 minutes ago, Djarskublar said:

They both make dark smoke come off the people they kill, if for different reasons.

I don't recall Honorblades doing anything of the like. Can you quote a passage?

[asterion137 he/him]

30 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

I don't recall Honorblades doing anything of the like. Can you quote a passage?

the smoke comes from their eyes when they burn.

[Spoolofwhool]

Just now, asterion137 said:

the smoke comes from their eyes when they burn.

I know about that, but it's inherent to sprenblades as well. The OP seems to be suggesting that there is a dark smoke effect in addition to the burning eyes effect, which is what I was asking about. Unless of course the OP is just referring to the smoke from the burning eyes, in which case it's not worth mentioning as a supporting evidence as its clearly more an effect related to cutting the soul than something specific to Nightblood and Honorblades.

[Djarskublar he/him]

Well, going back and reading the passages I thought would best describe the effect, it isn't a very detailed description. It is literally just the "eyes smoked and burned. They blackened, shriveling up in his in head." (TWoK prologue pg. 25 of my hardback) I guess you could interpret that either way. They could just literally be combusting, but that would be boring. I always thought it was strange that a Blade through your spine made your eyes burn, but if you say it is mixed with Investiture leaking off the dead soul, it makes more sense. The fact that regular Blades do this too is irrelevant. They were made to mimic the Honorblades, so they probably function very similarly, even though the way they get things done is different.

I don't see why it wouldn't be evidence... Nightblood cuts the same things as the various Blade types, plus more. If they are cutting the soul in a similar manner and producing a similar effect, then that is evidence that they work under similar principles.

Basically, I am saying that spren Blades are based off Honorblades, and Nightblood was based off dead spren Blades. Nightblood turned out to be more similar to an Honorblade though. I think Nightblood will grant surges as well, if only because plot. It's kinda hard to fight stone shamans running around with a bunch of Honorblades when all you have is a very hard to use Blade. He will probably get surges.

[Spoolofwhool]

It's been theorized that Nightblood will grant surges because it essentially contains a splinter as well, since the breath inside it is sentient. As such, bonding to Nightblood will  possibly create something similar to a Nahel Bond, granting some equivalent of surgebinding capabilities. However, you are correct that it may be more akin to to Honorblades in how it grants surgebinding and other abilities as it will probably only grant the abilities to the current holder, instead of having one dedicated person it is bonded to. 

Regarding the evidence of smoke, I thought you were referring to that as evidence for something other than the obvious fact that Nightblood is indirectly modeled after Honorblades and has similar effects. My apologies. Although, the reason for the smoke is fairly different I think. The burning eyes might be akin to the saying "eyes are the mirror of the soul", so when a sprenblade or honorblade kills someone by cutting their soul, the "mirrors" (eyes) shatter (burn).

tl;dr Nightblood is somewhere between a sprenblade and honorblade. It seems like it contains a splinter, so could form a Nahel Bond, but may just give abilities to the holder like an honorblade since the bond it forms is more versatile. Whether it is more towards one or the other, I don't think can be said because it was directly modeled after the former and indirectly modeled after the latter.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

17 hours ago, Djarskublar said:

So in my reread of WoR, I noticed that Syl said that the Honorblade fed on Szeth's Stormlight. I also gave some serious consideration to why people's eyes smoke when they are killed by a Blade of any type. I also thought about what Nightblood would do on Roshar, and I came to a conclusion.

Nightblood will function almost exactly the same way Honorblades do.

Now, while Heralds will probably get extra perks from their Honorblade than a regular person, as has been discussed elsewhere, I won't dig into that.

Nightblood and Honorblades both feed on Investiture. They both make dark smoke come off the people they kill, if for different reasons. They both grant powers to their wielders (that manifest as Surges on Roshar, or at least, Nightblood might anyway). I can't come up with any reason that Nightblood would function massively differently from an Honorblade, except for the obvious bit about making Investiture inaccessible and cutting on all 3 realms.

They function like an honorblade would in the hands of someone who wasn't fully bonded to it like the heralds were, yes. I feel I should mention that both of these things are nearly identical to what a living shard blade does. Which is what Vasher might have partially based this design off of. So in conclusion, you are absolutely right that these do similar things.

[1stBondsmith he/him]

Forgive a parallel but different view.

I read no evidence of Nightblood granting any particular power to its owner, other that to be able to speak to their minds. It feeds of the investiture around it, including the holder, thus Vasher needs a constant supply of investiture. But now that he is no longer holding Nightblood, he only needs enough to feed the equivalent of a Breath a week. Nightblood's directive, "to destroy evil", leads it to test the intentions of the people around it. It takes their souls by force or by (absorption?) when killing. But I never once heard that it granted the holder abilities. These appear to have been learned over centuries by Vasher and the other 4 Scholars. Two of them were swordsmen excelling Vasher, and they did not have Nightblood or a weapon like it. 
This is very different from an Honorblade, and requires no bond like a dead shardblade. You only need to pass the Good/Evil test of Nightblood to use it.

[Yata he/him]

I agree that Nightblood is different from an Honorblade.

But @1stBondsmith Nightblood actually bonds with his user after He/she was drained by Nightblood and survives...after this moment He will feel no nausea with Nightblood's presence.

More, on Roshar the Bonds become stronger and may gift new abilities....this mean it's possible that Nightblood may have extra power while it ans its holder are on Roshar.

Nightblood is an artificial Spren (this mean is more affine with Sprenblade than Honorblade) and while it doesn't fit in any Radiant order....it may have some peculiar ability (probably not related to the Surges).

PS: Of course Nightblood isn't alone in the "extra power" league. Also a Seon's Bond (or skaze's Bond), Avian and possibly the Returned...may recive something extra on roshar

Edited September 15, 2016 by Yata

[1stBondsmith he/him]

I do not believe a bond is formed when the Good/Evil test is passed, you are just no longer the focus of the test. Good guys are spoken to and bad guys are destroyed. No other power has been described yet, and certainly no evidence of using a power granted by the sword. Speculation about being granted extra powers on Roshar is just that,..speculation. 

The reason that Nightblood is referred to as an artificial spren, is that it is a  focused concept (Destroy Evil) that with enough investiture and other workings yet to be described by Vasher, has achieved sentience (like some more powerful spren). We don't have any other examply of humans forming a spren, or seon, or avian etc.This does not imply he needs to be bonded. That appears to be a Roshar thing. We don't know if that is needed with his huge investiture, or what level his sentience is, considering his very numerous blindspots in comprehension (time, change, and others mentioned in Warbreaker).

You do have a good point about other worlds' bonds though. It will cause me to ponder for a while.

[Spoolofwhool]

24 minutes ago, 1stBondsmith said:

I do not believe a bond is formed when the Good/Evil test is passed, you are just no longer the focus of the test. Good guys are spoken to and bad guys are destroyed. No other power has been described yet, and certainly no evidence of using a power granted by the sword. Speculation about being granted extra powers on Roshar is just that,..speculation. 

The reason that Nightblood is referred to as an artificial spren, is that it is a  focused concept (Destroy Evil) that with enough investiture and other workings yet to be described by Vasher, has achieved sentience (like some more powerful spren). We don't have any other examply of humans forming a spren, or seon, or avian etc.This does not imply he needs to be bonded. That appears to be a Roshar thing. We don't know if that is needed with his huge investiture, or what level his sentience is, considering his very numerous blindspots in comprehension (time, change, and others mentioned in Warbreaker).

You do have a good point about other worlds' bonds though. It will cause me to ponder for a while.

In the annotations of Warbreaker it does say that you are changed by Nightblood to become immune to its nausea-inducing effects, not that you are ignored by it. This implies in turn that there is some connection to Nightblood. Also, there is some evidence that Nightblood does provide enhanced physical abilities to the wielders, as we see the thieves easily murdering others with by crushing them. While this could attributed to natural strength and the weight of Nightblood, the fact that it has occurred extremely rapidly and in close quarters lends more credence to magical enhancement. It isn't naturally easy to ram a sheathed sword through your chest. Anyone would have practically zero leverage.

There is a WoB that a bonded Seon would lend similar powers if it and the person it was bonded to went to Roshar. This lends credence to the idea that Roshar gives some sort of abilities to people who are in some way bonded to splinter. Probably similar to what happens to the birds and the worms in Sixth of the Dusk. As you say, Nightblood is in essence a sword containing a splinter. Therefore, as an extension to above, there is a reasonable possibility that Nightblood would give its wielder certain abilities when on Roshar.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

4 hours ago, 1stBondsmith said:

This is very different from an Honorblade, and requires no bond like a dead shardblade. You only need to pass the Good/Evil test of Nightblood to use it.

While it may not "require" a bond, there still is one. WoB (not sure if it counts as the same type, but it exists.)

Quote

Question

How is it that Nightblood, who is merely a near-sentient awakened object, was able to read minds, something a Shard like Ruin was unable to do?

Brandon Sanderson

It requires bonding (with the person whose mind is to be read) to read minds.

 

[ARARITA he/him]

Zombie blade ..just sayin