AuthorityHellas16 - The Thousand Yard Stare - Chapter 2 [V, L]

[AuthorityHellas16 he/him]

Hello again all!

 

Thanks for reading the second chapter of the Thousand Yard Stare (sorry its a bit early!). In this chapter, we get our first glimpse of Silvanus, Atena’s nemesis in Altamar, head of the Inquisition and all around cremhole. We also have our first encounter with the nightspawn. 

Questions from this chapter:

1. Is it boring? Previous feedback on my battle scenes was that they were boring, long and included no reason to care. I’ve tried to correct these, but don’t hesitate to crucify me if you find yourself falling asleep. 
2. New character: the main character introduced here is Silvanus, someone that Atena has a lot of history and bad blood with. What do you think of him? My aim was to create a character who was ostensibly on the side of good, but was a bad, petty person (an “anti-villain” if you will). Is he too obviously nasty, or does he provide a nice counterpoint to Cronus and his eeeeeeevilness?
3. Old characters: as always, I’d love a running commentary of the characters that have already been introduced.

 

I made a few changes to the previous chapter that spill into this one. Chief of these is bringing the character of Eleanor or’Shan into the foreground as Atena’s adopted sister and closest friend. This is why she and Eleanor share a home. For those of you who read the previous version of this story, Eleanor takes a lot of Catherine’s personality traits while being a very skilled ironforger (essentially a blacksmith). 

 

Let me know what you think. 

 

AH16

 

Previously: 

Twelve years after Cronus’ rebellion, Atena has become the Field Marshal of the Ordo Milita. She is meeting with her sister Eleanor but is obviously still haunted by the events of the war, especially the destruction of Altamar’s sister city Altaiire. Unfortunately she quickly loses her temper with Eleanor and her sister leaves her office. Marcus tries to cheer her up but fails. 

 

At the end of the day, Atena returns home from work. As she reaches at her apartment, she has a vivid flashback to the destruction of Altaiire, where her Fourth Company was decimated and thousands of civilians slaughtered. Eleanor comforts her and puts her to bed, quickly forgiving her for snapping at her earlier that day.

 

P.S. If anyone would like to read the updated version of Chapter 1, let me know

[kais]

Overall,

I liked the descriptions, but here Atena's character lagged. There was no movement on her character development, and I still don't know enough about this war she is fighting to care about the battle scenes. I think there were several moments in this submission where you could really develop Atena's character without changing the flow of the story, and I have highlighted them below.

Your Questions:

Boring: Yes, I'm afraid. I still don't have enough of Atena's character or the background of the war to care about either. I have some interest in Atena, but she needs to show some development here soon.

Silvanus: I get no feel for him at all. I would not have identified him as an important character had you not specifically asked about him

Old characters: Per Atena, without more development, I don't have a lot to comment on.

As I go

- you're still skewing adjective heavy. Maybe try to limit yourself to one per sentence until you can pare them down better.

- Elanor and Atena...roomates or.... they way it is written it could go either way, and you have my undivided attention if they're sharing a room. O_O  <-- me, always up for some f/f character interaction (ETA: clearly did not remember they were sisters from the previous chapter)

- page one: I'd like to see more reasoning for Atena's reaction to the message. She's getting all nervous and adrenalined and such, but I still don't have a clear picture as to why she feels this way. I require backstory.

- page one. Ah, 'sis'. Alas. There goes my 'ship.

- "It’s just something I’ve got to do, Ellie" but why????

- page one: I don't understand it's purpose. It's an ideal place to look into the motivations of Atena, but end up just bits of dialogue. Suggest beefing up the convo between her and her sister so that we get character development.

- "Atena lashed out and grabbed Silvanus by his collar. ‘Listen here, you piece of rust—" same deal here. I don't understand the reasoning for her actions. You're relying on reader assumption that all beings are inherently 'good' and have the same values about social caste systems. We know nothing about Atena's value system. This needs to be defined before her actions like this mean anything.

- page three: they're talking about the upcoming battle but since I still don't understand why the battle is happening or what the stakes are for Atena, it does not resonate. I just end up bored and wanting to get to some text that gives me more insight into the character so I can figure out why I care about these events.

- page three: the remembrancer bit dialogue is good and gives me a small peak into Atena. Here, there is 'voice'

- page four: the descriptions of the armor and such is pretty author voice telling. Would rather get it shown.

- page four: LOL at the fungus-covered head

- page six: the battle is long for still being unsure why it is being fought. Also, with all the PTSD you brought out in Atena earlier, I'm surprised she is doing this well. Wouldn't she be having flashbacks mid battle? that'd be interesting to see, would help develop her character, and would give more depth to the battle (because others would land blows, etc).

- page seven: tactics not conducive to film... love it!

 

 

[Hobbit]

There was a lot I liked about this chapter.  You are building a world that is very vivid - magical runes of light, floating armor, demons that all look different, characters who fly, sparkly rainbow snowflake void travel... It all sounds awesome!  I'd like to see the characters interacting with these things emotionally to give all the stuff more story life, rather than just visual life. Hopefully that makes sense.  Right now it feels like set dressing (really cool set dressing, don't get me wrong) rather than part of an immersive experience.

Is it boring?  I didn't think so.  I never scrolled ahead thinking, "How long is this?" so that's a good sign.   But I definitely think it could be improved.  I enjoyed reading the battle scene, mostly for the descriptions of the monsters and the fighting, but it wasn't a high-stakes moment for me.  I agree with kaisa that I want to know more about the war first.  Here's a (kind of long, sorry) list of questions I have:  If the monsters can't get through the void, then why do they need to go fight them at all?  It sounds like they have to fight the monsters often, but why is that?  Are the monsters trying purposefully to attack their city, or are these just neighbor squabbles?  And how does this connect to the conflict that Aenta fought in before, that she keeps having flashbacks about and where her friends died?  If Aenta looses this battle, what does that mean (I assume they can retreat back into the void, but maybe not)?  And I know she's not going to die this early on, so what does it mean politically?  Silvanus obviously thinks she can screw up, but what does "screwing up" look like?  Just losing men?

New character:  After reading, I could tell that Aetna has bad blood with Silvanus, but I wouldn't have characterized him as petty from this one scene.  I got the impression that he really doesn't like Aetna, but he does like playing with her emotions, and that he is a typical stuck-up noble character who hates being around peasants.  He is basically who I expected him to be (a lot like Sadeas from The Way of Kings), but for a first impression I don't mind if a character seems a little expected, as long as they prove more fleshed out as the story progresses.  I'm not sure I've met Cronus yet, so I can't compare to him.

Old characters:  I'm having trouble relating/connecting to Aetna.  I think my main problem is that she's always frustrated or angry, and it's starting to feel a little flat.  I'd like to see a little more emotional range from her to maker her feel more real.  I'm also not buying into her PTSD episodes yet.  I think kaisa is right in that we don't understand her backstory well enough yet to understand her actions.  I think the backstory is there, developed, as you've mentioned pieces of it, but we as readers need still more context.  I do think you do a good job of describing her emotions (I really liked the: Now that she was free to think rather than react... paragraph on page 6), but these episodes just don't mean as much as you want them to yet.

A few specifics: 

I really enjoyed the first page.  The scene is set quickly, and we have a conflict almost immediately.  I like Aetna's attitude towards the messenger and Eleanor's response.

‘All right,’ she said. ‘Well, I can’t stop you going. Just make sure you come back. Got it?’
This felt a little wooden to me.  I think it's too on the nose.

...the way he drew out his words carried an air of insufferable arrogance.
Loved this line.  It's a great POV line from Aetna.  You can tell how much she hates him already.

Atena released Silvanus and backed away...
She didn't even hesitate?  I wouldn't have expected her to listen to Marcus that quickly.

‘Come on,’ Atena said...  ‘Good point,’ he eventually said with a grin.
This also feels wooden to me. 

Atena led her army through the Void...
Awesome paragraph, but it felt out of place tone-wise with the rest of the chapter.  Suddenly we were talking about souls and the passage of time, and I was like, "Whoa, this got deep real fast!"  Maybe ease this information in a little more gradually?

These navigators were experts at phasing whole armies in and out of the Void.
You don't need to tell me this - you're about to show me in the next few paragraphs.

...blade through its crusted head.
You just used the word "crusted" in the previous line, so this one stands out too much to me.

...diving to the ground like hawks...
Again, their name already has the word "hawks" in it - no repeats!

I’ll beat you so black and blue you won’t be able to show your face in public ever again.
Awww, I was hoping she was going to make a heavier threat.  

I also loved both sections where Aetna gets upset at the remembarancers.  Very fun.  

Looking forward to Chapter 3!

[rdpulfer he/him]

- I'm kinda surprised they still hand-deliver messages, especially ones of great strategic importance. 

- Silvanius strikes me as too one-note from his first line. You know he's a bad guy . . so you don't really care. I think with an anti-villain, you have to create a character the readers care, or at least, are interested in. Silvanius doesn't do that for me.

- I like the idea of the remembrancer, but the hostility again seems out of left field and even a bit over-the-top. 

- Overall, I like the setting, and I want to like the characters, but a lot of the rivalries between the characters seem too one-dimensional at this point. 

[Mandamon he/him]

Similar comments to kaisa and Ernei.  (Oh, and @Ernei--you're doing great in the reviews I've read so far.  You have some good critique!)

pg 1: "The armour floated off the mannequin"
--I'd watch the 'ease of magic' pitfall here.  If it uses less energy to make armor float and dress someone that it does to get dressed, then why aren't the forgers tied up in moving cargo around to feed the city?

pg 1: Eleanor is an interesting counterpoint, and gives us a look at the non-martial folk (I'm assuming).  So what does she do?  Can you slip it into the introduction to tell us why we should care about Eleanor?

pg 2: "Atena lashed out and grabbed Silvanus by his collar."
--Which one?  Did she hit him or grab him?

pg 2: Okay, Silvanus is a bit over the top--Draco Malfoy in the first couple books.

pg 3: "The High Inquisitor turned beetroot"
--someone with his presence is not going to get embarrassed by an implied insult.

pg 3: "‘There’s only one screw up in this room, Silvanus,’ Atena retorted."
--this makes Atena seem childish

pg 4: The walk through the void was a little boring. You could perhaps cut some from it.

pg 4: "Soldier stared at traitor. Traitor stared back."
--Didn't get this.  Did part of the army turn traitor??

pg 6: yep, the fighting is pretty boring.  I don't have any connection to the soldiers, and they're fighting standard Horrible Monsters.  What emotions do you want to get across here?  How does this fight progress the story?

So to your questions:
1) Is it boring? Unfortunately, yes. The remembrancers give it a sort of Hunger Games vibe, which is not necessarily bad, but they are not evident in the fight, and then pop up to say it was crap.  Which makes me think, "yeah that sort of was a crap fight."  What are you aiming for in the section?  Maybe if one of the remembrancers gets in the way of the fighting and Atena has to go rescue him, it will give us some more connection.
2) Silvanus:  Good start, but a little over the top nasty.  You can probably dial him back a little, but keep some of the snide comments.   He's a strong character.
3) Old characters: Fine, but I still don't have a big connection to Marcus.  Atena is consistent, at least, but she seems to lash out more than a commander of an army should.  I think the rest of the characters were new.  

[Coop]

This chapter speaks to the teenaged boy in me: quick pace, plenty of action, cool descriptions of your nightspawn fodder, and equally cool settings. When I'm in the mood for popcorn entertainment, this is the kind of thing that fills that need. You may not bring in too many from the literary crowd with this, but I think you'll attract plenty of the sword & sorcery types.

Sure, I didn't think your characters had tons of depth, but because of the brisk pace of their conversations it didn't really faze me. P.S. In my opinion, the depth thing is only a criticism if depth is what you're going for; I recently read a couple really good Drizzt novels which were filled with characters similar to those I'm finding in your story. I will say though, Silvanus seemed so much a caricature that I started imagining Snidely Whiplash. I'd dial him back a little.  

I was also fine going into this short battle scene without knowing too much about what the stakes were because I was expecting to have those dropped on me at the end of the battle. However, I believe this is the third time I've read one of your battles and kept expecting for some serious ramifications to suddenly present themselves, and then they didn't. I suppose the interchange with the remembrancer after the battle was the ramification, but I was underwhelmed by this. My thought was, "Is that it? Is that where we're going with this story?" I also liked the "conducive to film" line, but that was simply humorous to me, not enough in terms of stakes to get me really invested.

The limits of aspect energy are not clear to me at all. Often, I'm figuring Atena is fighting with her sword simply because she's out of magic, then suddenly she unleashes something wildly destructive and I wonder why she didn't just do that from the start.

I liked the elements of the void you retained from your prologue a couple months ago. I liked the idea of seed-like particles of aspect energy--very cool.

Nice story. Thanks for the read.

 

[AuthorityHellas16 he/him]

Wow, so much amazing feedback. Once again, you all prove yourself to be such a great community, thank you! 

To avoid having a response a mile long, I'll address (but not defend!) the two major and recurring criticisms, but please be sure that I'm taking in everything that you're saying. Also, special shoutout to @Ernei; welcome to Reading Excuses and thanks for your great feedback. Can't wait to read your submission this week  

• The Stakes: I agree on re-reading it that there's not enough information on the war itself to give a sense of why it's so important. I think that this is partially due to a. it being obvious to me as the author but a failure of mine to translate that to the page, and b. my overwhelming desire to reveal such information without resorting to info dumps. I think I should spend more time setting up this conflict, maybe adding to the pre-battle scenes and splitting this up into two chapters. If there's space this week, I'd like to re-submit Chapter 1, which I've overhauled with an emphasis on giving some details as to why Atena is so obsessed with the war against Cronus. 
• Character Depth: again, something I hope to address in my reworked Chapter 1. I think it was @Coop who suggested that having Atena's psyche dominated by her PTSD and forcing her to grapple with that would make a good character. I've tried to do that, but perhaps went a little overboard. As a sidenote, I take "depth" as a character having a personality and motivations that are moulded by their history which consequently inform their actions, basically asking "why do they act the way they do?"
  I've tried to flesh Atena out a bit in this regard in my SHINY NEW first chapter, and I intend to do the same with the others during their character arcs throughout the story. On principle, how much fleshing out would be a good amount per chapter, do you reckon? I don't want to reveal everything about the characters in one huge go, because then they become static. 
  I also agree that Silvanus is a bit too Saturday-morning villain-esque here. Not what I was going for, so I'll tone him back a bit

There's so much more I've got to process here, but those are my major takeaways. Once again thanks to you all!

 

• 
   

Edited September 8, 2016 by AuthorityHellas16

[Vreeah]

1. Is the battle scene boring?

 

Hm. I'll say yes. For me, there are two reasons why. The first is that, since it's still so early in the story, I can't identify proper nouns immediately. The unit types are not familiar enough to me for me to visualize them clashing together. Secondly, the second half of the battle was more of a summary than a fight. I saw the order being given, the action being started, and the enemy reactions in the aftermath. I did not see bombings or raids happening, I just know that they did and they apparently worked. Everything ended abruptly.

It wasn't the type of boredom where I'd fall asleep, though. The battle was short, so the story is moving along fine. If the fight isn't important, I'd say this went fine.

2. New character, Silvanus

 

I get the feeling that this character is being set up as an antagonist. There's no mask or mystery. He is openly nasty and sarcastic, with the description of his speech being forthright. His words are clearly bait for Atena to snap on. I ran into a problem where I'm not sure what's worse: Silvanus's purposeful irritation or Atena's immediately violent responses.

3. Old characters.

Atena is a bulldog, tough and ferocious, both socially and combatively.

Eleanor seems to be in need of an extra pair of arms so that she'll perpetually have her hands on her hips as she is being simultaneously supportive and worried.

Marcus is a straight man when he's alongside Atena. He's there to point out what's up and wrong, and to hold her back. On the battlefield, he's a matching bulldog, adorably violent.

===

How are things happening? Magical or otherwise.

Why are things happening? Motivations and timelines.

I do not know those two things, but I also don't have too many reasons to ask, yet. The current system of responding to threats as they show up feels like a rut that Atena is lodged in. I'm waiting for what is going to set her loose.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Vreeah

[Robinski he/him]

Hey, @AuthorityHellas16, I just popped up to apologise for not reading. I said earlier that I was going to try cutting down a bit on my critiquing, and I'm afraid you have fallen victim to my cutback. Sorry!! The thing is, I enjoyed the biblical elements of the story, I thought that aspect was one thing (not the one thing) that made it stand out from generic fantasy. Hence my disappointment when I read the first submission to discover that Hellas himself was gone. Not to say that there weren't issues, of course and that for one, female character(s) deserved to be better served first time around.

Anyway, I was feeling guilty at not having contributed, so there you go. Not very helpful, but that's my two cents, spend it how you will

And best of everything with the story, of course.

 

Edited September 10, 2016 by Robinski