Theorycrafting: Nalan will come chasing after Adolin in Oathbringer

[Havoc]

During my latest reread of WoR I noticed a connection between a few existing theories that leads me to believe that we're going to see Nalan chasing down Adolin very soon.

Theory 1: Ym is an Edgedancer

I'm not sure where I first read this, but there's certainly a lot of evidence for it:

• Ym uses Progression (Regrowth), so he's either an Edgedancer or a Truthwatcher.
• He lives up to the second ideal of the Edgedancers, "I will remember those who are forgotten." E.g. him helping out street urchins.
• His spren looks like what you'd see if you could only see Wyndle's crystals. We see Wyndle through Lift's PoV, and Lift has the special ability to see and interact partly with the cognitive realm, which is why Wyndle looks different from Ym's spren at first glance.
• His Interlude chapter arch has Vedel twice, the patron of the Edgedancers. (Lift's own chapter has Nalan + Vedel.)

Theory 2: Nalan is only going after (proto) Edgedancers

We have only seen Nalan try to kill two people, Ym and Lift. The moment you accept that Ym is an Edgedancer, it strongly suggests that Nalan is only going after members of that specific order. Perhaps he thinks their combination of surges is particularly dangerous.

Theory 3: Adolin is on his way to being an Edgedancer

• His shardblade is described as having vines, so used to once belong to an Edgedancer.
• He is one of the few Shardbearers to talk regularly to his Blade.
• He lives up to the Edgedancer ideal we know: "I will remember those who are forgotten." e. g. holding on to his mother's locket and remembering her before each fight, and protecting a prostitute who was being bullied in Sadeas's camp.

Theory 4: Adolin 'snapped' when killing Sadeas and is now on his way to becoming a surgebinder

A few quotes:

Quote

Adolin stood for a moment, staring Sadeas in the eyes, and then something finally snapped.

....

With a surge, Adolin forced the blade up past Sadeas’s nose and into the eye socket—piercing the eye like a ripe berry—then rammed it home into the brain.

What does that remind you of?

Quote

Boulders crashed above, smashing against the plateaus, breaking off chunks and tossing them down around him. Wind raged. Water swelled below, rising toward him. He clung to Shallan, but their wet hands started to slip.
And then, in a sudden surge, her grip tightened. With a strength that seemed to belie her smaller form, she heaved.

I think there's a strong case that something inside Adolin just broke, and he can now start to instinctively use stormlight, the same way Dalinar or Kaladin did before speaking the first Ideal.

Wrap-up

So we have a Herald that tries to kill Edgedancers, but makes sure to keep his killing legal, i.e. as 'justice' for some crime that the proto-radiant has committed.

And Adolin is a proto-Edgedancer who has just begun to access some of his power, who has just committed a capital crime in Alethakar. (We might think he was justified, but according to the letter of the law, I'm quite sure Adolin was in the wrong)

I think that in Oathbringer we're going to see Adolin leave the others for one reason or another, and find Nalan closely on his tail. This should be quite the battle, Herald vs. champion duelist.

 

[dvoraen]

We're in agreement that we'll see Nale come after our Radiants, and I would be surprised if he didn't show up at Urithiru to try and assassinate Shallan, Dalinar, AND a few others he identifies as bonded.

 

Buuuuut: he seems to be practicing what he preaches, by and large, of obeying the laws of a given land, as shown in Lift's interlude.  It could very well be that there is a 'law' that he knows that would actively prevent him from harming anyone within Urithiru.  This would certainly be justification for going after Adolin, though, as it was a murder committed there, but it does assume (and I think correctly -- there are hints supporting this) that Adolin has started the process of ending up bonded.  I'm not yet convinced he'll be an Edgedancer, though, because right now I'm kind of eyeballing the Releasers, though that's mostly because of the epigraph describing them as a bit hotheaded yet fiercely protective, and who can currently say if that's factual?

 

Either way, I think Nale being outed as the Herald of Justice is what's going to up the ante further for our Final Desolation.  The moment that the nine Heralds' betrayal becomes known, things are REALLY going to end up bleak, at least in Vorin Roshar.  I'm also very curious to hear what it was specifically that Wyndle was detecting as 'not right' with Nale, too.

[Erklitt]

@Havoc On the whole, most of this is pretty viable I think (though not quite new).

One part is made pretty unlikely by the Lift story that was sent in the Newsletter.

Spoiler

(Lift to Wyndle:) "The Noodles [Azish viziers] looked into it; they're fascinated by him [Darkness]. Everyone pays attention to that bald guy who collects the heads of kings, but this guy has been murdering his way across Roshar, too. Little people. Quiet people. "

So although we have only seen Nalan go after (probable) Edgedancers, he seems to have killed a lot of people. From Wyndle's conversation I never got the impression that many of his kind were sent, so it's unlikely all those people were budding Edgedancers.

Btw, although it isn't stated clearly, in the same story there are at least strong hints that Nalan might be going after a budding Skywalker* there.

Edit: * yeah, well err ... something like that

However, that doesn't make the rest of your theory unlikely.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Erklitt

[BeskarKomrk he/him]

23 minutes ago, Erklitt said:

Btw, although it isn't stated clearly, in the same story there are at least strong hints that Nalan might be going after a budding Skywalker there.

Anakin or Luke?

[Yata he/him]

4 minutes ago, BeskarKomrk said:

Anakin or Luke?

It's too late for Anakin, of course the prey is Luke 

[Erklitt]

@BeskarKomrk, @Yata: Leia obviously, you gender-blind morons!

[Killik he/him]

9 minutes ago, Yata said:

It's too late for Anakin, of course the prey is Luke 

Or is it..... Rey?!   Oh wait, wrong forum for that particular theory.

I agree, I think it is very highly likely to see Nale chasing down our budding Radiants for one reason or another.  Near the end of Lift's chapter she and Nale have this conversation:

Quote

"Why...why do you hunt me?"  "In the name of justice."  "There are tons of people who do wrong things," she said.... "You... you coulda hunted big crime bosses, murderers.  You chose me instead.  Why?"  "Others may be detestable, but they do not dabble in arts that could return Desolation to this world."  His words were so cold.  "What you are must be stopped."

This seems to really solidify the idea (in my mind anyways) that Nale is not specifically targeting Edgedancers, but all surgebinders.  I hadn't seen the Lift excerpt from the newsletter, but that really makes it seem like Nale has taken out quite a number of proto-Radiants already.  I think a group of self-proclaimed Radiants in the open will be too much for him not to head that way.  I also think we're likely to see a lot more Herald appearances in Oathbringer, as we did at the assassination in WoK. 

[Doc12]

@Erklitt Nale would still have to find grounds for an execution though,  and I'm sure luke and Leia have been pardoned for their 'crimes'  I'm the rebellion under the new Republic. Now what other Skywalker have we seen that has committed an unforgivable crime?  

Yes,  it can only be Ben Skywalker. That would certainly be a neat end to the new trilogy wouldn't it?  

Plus guys,  SHARDBLADE VS LIGHTSABER .... 

Edited August 10, 2016 by Doctor12

[Erklitt]

4 minutes ago, Doctor12 said:

@Erklitt Nale would still have to find grounds for an execution though,  and I'm sure luke and Leia have been pardoned for their 'crimes'  I'm the rebellion under the new Republic. Now what other Skywalker have we seen that has committed an unforgivable crime?  

Yes,  it can only be Ben Skywalker. That would certainly be a neat end to the new trilogy wouldn't it?  

Plus guys,  SHARDBLADE VS LIGHTSABER .... 

So, Ben underwent post-mortem sex-change surgery, then came to life again in order to be finally slaughtered by Nale after his Skybreaker identity has been proven? Does that about sum up your post?  (Now I have it: that's why he could fly, he never was a true Jedi!)

[Doc12]

2 minutes ago, Erklitt said:

So, Ben underwent post-mortem sex-change surgery, then came to life again in order to be finally slaughtered by Nale after his Skybreaker identity has been proven? Does that about sum up your post?  (Now I have it: that's why he could fly, he never was a true Jedi!)

Post mortem wha?

[Erklitt]

11 minutes ago, Doctor12 said:

Post mortem wha?

All right, I admit, I'm not into Star Wars beyond watching the movies.  Googling just showed me where I went wrong... was thinking of Ben Kenobi ... strike the post-mortem part ... and this nice young man will make such an attractive woman!

Edited August 10, 2016 by Erklitt

[Argel he/him]

Interesting theory and different ramifications than what we have been hashing out lately. Also, getting to watch Nalan and Adolin duel would be fun. Or Edgedancer Adolin and Szeth.... Maybe not to be resolved till SA5....

[CaptainRyan he/him]

4 hours ago, Erklitt said:

@BeskarKomrk, @Yata: Leia obviously, you gender-blind morons!

Leia views herself as an "Organa", her adopted parent's name, so, due to the powerful affect of the Cognitive Realm she is not actually considered a Skywalker.  

[Erklitt]

19 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

Leia views herself as an "Organa", her adopted parent's name, so, due to the powerful affect of the Cognitive Realm she is not actually considered a Skywalker.  

As if Nale cared about that...

26 minutes ago, Argel said:

Interesting theory and different ramifications than what we have been hashing out lately. Also, getting to watch Nalan and Adolin duel would be fun. Or Edgedancer Adolin and Szeth.... Maybe not to be resolved till SA5....

I like the idea of the Nale/Adolin duel. Especially with a revived Shardblade on Adolin's side... Btw, does anyone know (WoB etc) whether Nale is in possession of his own Honorblade, or is that just supposition? His 'Skywalkbreakers' (who I believe, as I think I've mentioned before, are not the true order) seem to wield dead Shardblades, at least that's the impression I got in the Lift interlude.

Alolin / Szeth though ... with Szeth wielding Nightblood? Pretty frightening prospect. On the other hand, after the four-on-one Adolin has hands-on experience with starting as the underdog.

Yeah, I really hope one of these plays out.

[iohn he/him]

I don't necessarily accept that Ym is an edgedancer, he could just as easily have been a Truthwatcher. His spren says "He comes" which could be a sensitivity he has to radiant powers, or could be his truthwatcheriness giving him some precognition. Plus his spren wasn't a bunch of vines like Lifts. Coppermind possits that Ym was a Truthwatcher, though admittedly without much evidence.

[Yata he/him]

We may also try to fit Ym's personalitywith  Lift or Renarin's Ones.

The Ym's actions are more with the "I will rememeber the forgotter" as Edgedancer's Oath.

I took on the forum the idea about "nale is hunting down the Edgedancers" months ago. Of course there isn't any sure proofs also if Ym was an Edgedancer...but I want to believe (X-Files Cit.)

Edited August 10, 2016 by Yata

[Guest]

This theory has been discussed recently within an Ym related topic. I personally rather liked the theory even if I have to admit it isn't overly likely. I must however admit there is something about Ym's order which Brandon does not want to spill right away: theories have been numerous.

If Ym was a Truthwatcher, then knowing how his spren looks and knowing how Glys looks may allow readers to figure out Renarin is not truly a Truthwatcer, which is a current theory among some readers. 

If Ym was an Edgedancer, then what does it mean? Why not tell us? This is where this theory has sprouted from, Nale is after Edgedancers specifically. 

I would point out, at this point, that while Nale may not be after Edgedancers specifically (the why he would is also left unanswered), there is definitely something about this order which Brandon either wants to retained or wants to further explore. He is, after all, giving us a novella which, going by the words of those who actually read it, is a must read before SA3. In other words, it isn't a stand-alone, it is used to present elements we need to know before digging into SA3. Are those elements related to the Edgedancers order or are they something else? Anyone's guess is as good as mine.

As for the theory, I have issues with number 4: I am rather convinced Adolin is not a proto-Radiant, yet. While I have good reasons to think Brandon will have him revive his Blade, at some point in time, probably starting late in book 3, I also have serious doubts Adolin is capable of surgebinding or using stormlight at this point in time. If he were, he'd have healed his wrist and his bruises. He wouldn't be so beaten down after the Plateau fight as the stormlight would have lessen his injuries. We have seen how Dalinar has been able to maintain a high level of activity despite gruesome injuries merely because he was unconsciously using stormlight for years. Had Adolin been on his way towards Radianhood, his injuries would have been lesser... Dalinar managed to fight with an injured shoulder and broken ribs while Adolin was all but trying to fend for himself, he was dazed, his head hurt and towards the end, there is no denying how is the most badly injured. By all means, it should have been Dalinar: he had no Plate, he was tossed in the sky, but it is Adolin who suffered the worst injuries. Why? Because he can't heal himself. Therefore, the idea he may have used stormlight to push the knife through Sadeas's isn't supported by other textual evidence. 

It is highly likely likely Adolin's current status is not proto-Radiant, but normal guy. Still it does not mean the theory falls apart, it simply means many things will need to happen before Adolin is targeted by Nale, which I'd like to see, BTW.

[Erklitt]

35 minutes ago, maxal said:

If he were, he'd have healed his wrist and his bruises. [...]

If I understand Havoc's theory correctly, then he states that Adolin might just now, through snapping in that moment with Sadeas, become a proto-Radiant. Before this, his soul wasn't cracked enough, but now it is. So, before that moment, he would not have been able to use Stormlight, but he is now. That means he didn't have a chance to heal his injuries up to now; we've never seen him with this ability. Maybe we'll find out in Oathbinger that this has changed recently.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Erklitt said:

If I understand Havoc's theory correctly, then he states that Adolin might just now, through snapping in that moment with Sadeas, become a proto-Radiant. Before this, his soul wasn't cracked enough, but now it is. So, before that moment, he would not have been able to use Stormlight, but he is now. That means he didn't have a chance to heal his injuries up to now; we've never seen him with this ability. Maybe we'll find out in Oathbinger that this has changed recently.

Seems a bit sudden though... From what we have seen, forming a Nabel bond is something which happens very slowly. I somehow find it dubious Adolin would suddenly move from "normal guy" to "proto-Radiant" within a few seconds simply because he finally broke down.

I do agree this event likely is enough to call his soul cracked, but it seems too far-fetched to think he has become a proto-knight right here and there. Do we have a rational which can explain how it could be this sudden?

[Erklitt]

35 minutes ago, maxal said:

Seems a bit sudden though... From what we have seen, forming a Nabel bond is something which happens very slowly. I somehow find it dubious Adolin would suddenly move from "normal guy" to "proto-Radiant" within a few seconds simply because he finally broke down.

I do agree this event likely is enough to call his soul cracked, but it seems too far-fetched to think he has become a proto-knight right here and there. Do we have a rational which can explain how it could be this sudden?

It has to start somewhere, somehow... AFAIK we don't have any clear precedence, we can only guess. With Dalinar, it might have started when he started having the visions, after he had been 'chosen' by the Stormfather. With Shallan: too early for us to see. That garden scene is still wrapped in mysteries... With Kaladin: who knows? Maybe when he volunteered to join Tien in the army, in order to protect him? Anyway, I don't see any reason why this should not have been the moment for Adolin...

[CaptainRyan he/him]

55 minutes ago, maxal said:

Do we have a rational which can explain how it could be this sudden?

Well, I guess it depends on a number of things:

1) Are all spren as, for lack of a better word, shy at bonding? Perhaps some Orders bond faster than others?

2) The Everstorm. The spren are being forced to choose between risking death by bonding or simply being wiped out by Odium. They are moving faster.

3) Adolin was, to an extent, a "proto-Radiant" (this term has no real meaning haha) by exhibiting the characteristics required of a certain Order but he never had the proper "cracks" in his soul. He now does so the bonding process began then.

Edited August 10, 2016 by CaptainRyan

[Erklitt]

5 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

3) Adolin was, to an extent, a "proto-Radiant" (this term has no real meaning haha) by being exhibiting the characteristics requires of a certain Order but he never had the proper "cracks" in his soul. He now does so the bonding process began then.

And I think Adolin was already displaying some attributes of an Edgedancer. Not only in his defense of the prostitute, but also in his attitude toward small darkeyed boys, not to mention the way he led the army, completely devoid of any superiority on account of his birth. For a 'spoiled brat' he has behaved surprisingly 'unspoiled' on many occasions when it really counted. A proto-radiant in the works, if ever there was one.

[Pathfinder]

Personally I am of the opinion that Adolin was a protoradiant since he exhibited the sickness that proto radiants seem to undergo during combat to throw off the effects of the Thrill. During the final battle before the Everstorm struck he got sick. 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Erklitt said:

It has to start somewhere, somehow... AFAIK we don't have any clear precedence, we can only guess. With Dalinar, it might have started when he started having the visions, after he had been 'chosen' by the Stormfather. With Shallan: too early for us to see. That garden scene is still wrapped in mysteries... With Kaladin: who knows? Maybe when he volunteered to join Tien in the army, in order to protect him? Anyway, I don't see any reason why this should not have been the moment for Adolin...

Yes but for it to be the moment would require there was a spren waiting for the breakdown to happen... and I doubt his Blade is awake enough for it. In fact, we do know his Blade is not capable of granting powers just yet: a list of events had to happen and I personally do not believe he had another spren waiting for him.

16 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

Well, I guess it depends on a number of things:

1) Are all spren as, for lack of a better word, shy at bonding? Perhaps some Orders bond faster than others?

2) The Everstorm. The spren are being forced to choose between risking death by bonding or simply being wiped out by Odium. They are moving faster.

3) Adolin was, to an extent, a "proto-Radiant" (this term has no real meaning haha) by exhibiting the characteristics required of a certain Order but he never had the proper "cracks" in his soul. He now does so the bonding process began then.

Yes with which spren? I personally don't believe he had a spren hanging around him: we had too many of his POV not to notice if he were to see a spren. Kaladin noticed Syl early on, Renarin saw Glys early on (we have a WoB about Renarin seeing a spren no one else sees), if Adolin had a spren lingering around, surely he would have stated something. 

Also, all clues currently points towards Adolin reviving his Blade as we do know his Blade is not awake yet: it therefore cannot have granted him any powers. My guess has been Adolin will be a Radiant without powers for quite some time...

5 minutes ago, Erklitt said:

And I think Adolin was already displaying some attributes of an Edgedancer. Not only in his defense of the prostitute, but also in his attitude toward small darkeyed boys, not to mention the way he led the army, completely devoid of any superiority on account of his birth. For a 'spoiled brat' he has behaved surprisingly 'unspoiled' on many occasions when it really counted. A proto-radiant in the works, if ever there was one.

True enough, I agree about this. I would point out Adolin is not a spoiled brat: Kaladin thinks Adolin is a spoiled brat which made many readers think he was as well. He has every reasons to be a spoiled brat, but when push comes to shove, he turns out being completely selfless, generous and caring. He never asks for anything for himself which is quite unlike Elhokar (a proto-Radiant candidate) and Renarin (a Radiant). 

I for one quite seriously annoyed when others call Adolin "spoiled" and if he did live in material luxury, it stops right there. Adolin is the only young Kholin who is actually ask to work for his living (Renarin sure has no definite function and is presumably allowed to wander all day long), he is the only one having to show retribution towards higher authorities (Dalinar mostly. Jasnah does whatever she wants, uses the funds she wants and is never ask for anything in return), he is the only one who doesn't make demands for himself (Renarin threatens to kill himself if not allowed to be a soldier which made Dalianr gave him a Shardplate despite him being incapable of using it) and he never once put himself before anyone (Elhokar puts himself above anyone). In my personal opinion, Elhokar, Renarin and Jasnah are the ones who were spoiled for various reasons. Adolin also never falls on Dalinar's lenient side: his father is very strict and hard with him, while being very lenient with the others. 

Therefore is someone was spoiled within the Kholin family, it wasn't Adolin.

I agree he does have the making of a proto-Radiant which is why it may be painful to read if it never happens.

[Argel he/him]

Without powers for along time till he eventually revives his shardblade would also make more sense if he tangles with Szeth later on, especially is Szeth is SA5.