DeadFencer Posted July 30, 2016 Report Share Posted July 30, 2016 Anyone else feel like the masks of the Southerners are more than they seem? Considering that the Southerners didn't have the thousand years of technological repression of the final empire, they should at least have technology equal to 24th century earth. Perhaps the masks are HUD devices of some sort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Returned Posted July 30, 2016 Report Share Posted July 30, 2016 It struck me as just a cultural device by Brandon to separate the people of the two regions. But knowing how Sanderson works I wouldn't be surprised at all if it had a deeper meaning/use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted July 30, 2016 Report Share Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) ... I have never thought of thought. Not the masks; the fact that since Scadrial had steam engines and was about to hit the railroads before TLR's Ascension... During Second Era they should be around... (Earth's railroad start somewhere in 1700s?... + 1000 years of TLR's rule + 340 years of the skip...) in about 31th century. Wait, what? I mean, we can count off some years due to the Deepness... and moving the Scadrial closer to planet and the resulting hardships and adaptation needed... and then Catacendre which froze them... But still, they should be way ahead. Edited July 30, 2016 by Oversleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFencer Posted July 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2016 That's what I'm constantly thinking. Even if all their issues caused the southerners to not be as advanced as they could have been, they should at least be several centuries ahead of Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kotwq Posted July 30, 2016 Report Share Posted July 30, 2016 They didn't neccesarily have all the northern technology, TLR could've dropped people off south without anything. They wouldn't really be ahead if they had to start from scratch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFencer Posted July 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2016 Even if they were dropped off with nothing (which seems unlikely since Rashek wanted them to survive as a contingency), the southerners would have been able to rebuild society. Based on the fact that it took 314 years for the north to reach Earth 1910s equivalent tech, we can assume pre-Final Empire Scadrial was at about an Earth 1600 level. Even if the southerner's technological development was severely slowed, being more than 300 years "behind" earth and surviving as a society seems extremely unlikely to me . Worst case, Southern Scadrial is operating at an Earth 22nd century level of technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magestar Posted July 30, 2016 Report Share Posted July 30, 2016 Guys, they do have some pretty advanced tech. They have flying machines. They have devices that store allomancy. And we haven't even seen everything yet. I would not be surprised if they are much farther ahead in tech then the Elendelians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFencer Posted July 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 I don't know about that. The Elantrians were doing some VERY advanced stuff even in final empire times. Some world-changing stuff. I'm trying to avoid dropping secret history spoilers, but world changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 On 7/29/2016 at 8:25 PM, SafestPear said: Based on the fact that it took 314 years for the north to reach Earth 1910s equivalent tech, we can assume pre-Final Empire Scadrial was at about an Earth 1600 level. This... is kind of off. The Words of Founding contained a ton of information about agriculture, engineering, astronomy, medicine etc. So, the Northern Scadrians had the advantage of tons of scientific information but they had to start from scratch because the Catacendre destroyed, like, everything. Luckily, they did have the materials gathered in the storage caverns so they had a bit of a head start and the Elendel Basin is the most fertile location I've ever heard of. The Southern Scadrians were confined to the Southern hemisphere without the support of Metalborn. We are not sure how the Lord Ruler confined them but I imagine he took steps to prevent them from becoming technologically advanced because he would not want to deal with an invasion from his own back-up people. From there, the Catacendre was probably a very rough event for the Southern Scadrians. Add to that what we see at the end of Bands of Mourning in the coppermind memory (the Southern Scadrian peoples on the literal brink of extinction) and it is easy to see why the Southern Scadrians are not visting Northen Scadrial in the U.S.S. Enterprise (United Southern Scadrial). So, I think it is mentioned that the Sovereign arrived in Southern Scadrial 30 years after the Catacendre which means that the Southern Scadrians went from the brink of extinction where they had burned all of their things to airships and stuff in ~280 years. Not too shabby, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jofwu Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 On 7/29/2016 at 9:15 PM, Oversleep said: During Second Era they should be around... (Earth's railroad start somewhere in 1700s?... + 1000 years of TLR's rule + 340 years of the skip...) in about 31th century. Sazed explains (in one of the HoA epigraphs) that the Lord Ruler intentionally stunted technological development during his rule. And by stunted I mean halted. It was one of the means by which he exerted control. Yes, they are behind on technology... But not THAT far behind. You can only really fault them for their slowness over the last 340 years. And for at least some of that time they were working on rebuilding society from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Just now, jofwu said: Sazed explains (in one of the HoA epigraphs) that the Lord Ruler intentionally stunted technological development during his rule. And by stunted I mean halted. It was one of the means by which he exerted control. Yes, they are behind on technology... But not THAT far behind. You can only really fault them for their slowness over the last 340 years. And for at least some of that time they were working on rebuilding society from scratch. I was talking about Southern Scadrians who did not have a immortal tyrannical god ruler actively repressing technological and scientific progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jofwu Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, Oversleep said: I was talking about Southern Scadrians who did not have a immortal tyrannical god ruler actively repressing technological and scientific progress Ah! Sorry! Well, in that case I'd argue that they probably weren't exactly thriving during the Lord Ruler's reign. The fact that they had to naturally adapt to Rashek's world suggests that they were probably barely getting by for most of that time. They very well could have been worse off than the others by the end of HoA, technologically speaking. Unless I'm missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Oversleep said: I was talking about Southern Scadrians who did not have a immortal tyrannical god ruler actively repressing technological and scientific progress To be fair, the same immortal tyrannical god ruler somehow placed the Southern Scadrians in the south. He, most likely, put in safeguards to prevent them from becoming too advanced. After all, I doubt he wanted his back-up plan to invade his empire! And then, of course, there was the whole Catacendre thing that nearly wiped out the Southern Scadrians; thanks Sovereign for saving them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 I don't think TLR really 'placed' them there. There is no reason that whole planet wasn't inhabited and the division only came to be when Rashek put Scadrial too close to the Sun and the lands near the equator started to burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Oversleep said: I don't think TLR really 'placed' them there. There is no reason that whole planet wasn't inhabited and the division only came to be when Rashek put Scadrial too close to the Sun and the lands near the equator started to burn. Good point. Perhaps placed is the wrong word then. He left them there, without any of the genetic changes, but I do not think he would simply ignore them eh? If he was so worried about technology destabilizing his regime in the north then he must have had safeguards in place in the south, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Returned Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Yeah I think we're making the classic "It hasn't been said so it didn't happen" mistake. TLR was insanely paranoid about someone overthrowing him, so while all of MB has taken place in Northern Scadrial, that doesn't mean that he wasn't active in the South. He had god-like powers and almost unlimited resources. We don't know the system he had in place (and won't until at least "The Lost Metal", probably not until Era 3 Mistborn which takes place in the south) but I think it's out of character to think TLR just left them alone for that long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 @Radiant Returned, yeah, but after his Ascension he couldn't do anything to exercise control over them. He was literally on the other end of the world. Even if he manifested himself to them and said that they shouldn't make any progress (which I doubt he thinked about during his Ascension - he had much more important things to take care of), how long would that restriction last? A generation? Two? Three? It's not like he could build a religion focused on stagnation with just one apperance. I just can't imagine what Rashek could've done to slow them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Returned Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 @Oversleep it's very conceivable that Rashek could have sent some Inquisitors to rule/monitor the situation, as well as give them instructions on how to control armies of Koloss. Something along those lines seems a lot more conceivable to me than him ignoring the only real threat to his rule for a thousand years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFencer Posted August 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 I personally think Rashek didn't bother stunting the growth of the Southerners. They may have researched all sorts of advanced technology, but never invented planes or the like because there was no need. As far as they knew, only the south was inhabitable. Why explore the dangerously hot central area of the planet if there's nothing there? Plus, even if they had invented planes, it's not like they could have destabilized Rashek's regime. Short of divine intervention on Vin's part, there was literally no way for him to be defeated. Even if the Southerners showed up in planes, he condo have easily destroyed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted August 7, 2016 Report Share Posted August 7, 2016 The equator was practically impassable due to planet having been moved, so I don't think Rashek was concerned the SoScads would be invading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted August 12, 2016 Report Share Posted August 12, 2016 Tangentially related: Quote Comatose (18 October 2008) So here's my last question. If there ARE people on the other side of the world, did Vin kill them all by placing the sun on their side, or do they have they're own Ruin/Preservation battle going on over there as well? Do they also have allomancy feruchemy and hemalurgy? Brandon Sanderson (20 October 2008) No, they're not dead. Yes, Rashek was aware of them. In fact, he placed them there as a reserve. I knew he wanted a 'control' group of people in case his changes to genetics ended with the race being in serious trouble. All I'll say is that he found a way other than changing them genetically to help them survive in the world he created. And since they were created by Ruin and Preservation, they have the seeds of the Three Metallic Arts in them—though without anyone among them having burned Lerasium, Allomancers would have been very rare in their population and full Mistborn unheard of. source 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nervousnerd Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 When Wax tapped the coppermind, he kind of seemed to mention only towns and farmlands. The surviving people were huddled in a stone building. This may have been just one instance of the Sovereign helping the people but in my mind if they had cities he likely would have been shown there. Something seems to have held them back. I think their innovation age started with their introduction to Ettmetal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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