Asasasyn in White Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 Hello! What do you think about lashing Spikes? It has own investiture, so it can be hard to lash or awake it. I know I'm mixing Shardworlds too hard, so I don't know where to post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc12 Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) When you say lashing, do you mean using adhesion as a full lashing or gravitation to lash an object to yourself? If I recall correctly, spikes and metalminds in Mistborn couldn't be affected by allomancy due to the investiture inside, right? However, if you were to use lashing, I don't see why not. Adhesion and Gravitation are physical forces, not magical ones, so it doesn't matter how much investiture is in something, gravity still affects it. Same goes for adhesion. Someone tell me if theres' a WoB contradicting me. Edited July 10, 2016 by Doctor12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Doctor12 said: However, if you were to use lashing, I don't see why not. Adhesion and Gravitation are physical forces, not magical ones, so it doesn't matter how much investiture is in something, gravity still affects it. Same goes for adhesion. You can't lash someone in shardplate, so there is more to it. Whether this is because shardplate is full of Investiture or not, we don't yet know, but it seems likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc12 Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, Eki said: You can't lash someone in shardplate, so there is more to it. Whether this is because shardplate is full of Investiture or not, we don't yet know, but it seems likely. Darn. I stand corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 A Spike creates some Investiture intereference but the Hemalurgy is a low investiture magic System (it's the reason that made possible to use an Hemalurgic Spike as Metalmind like the Inquisitors do) Probably you may lash a Spike but your Lashing will last less than a standard invested object. A metalmind would be probably harder to lash (depending of the Feruchemical Charge) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathoth Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 Like Yata said, you can push on Metalminds, it is just a lot harder the more filled they are. Of course lashing a spike inside someones body is probably going to take an insane amount of Stormlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald101 Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) Relevant WoB's: Quote ZENITH Szeth mentions that Lashings don't work with shardplate (on?). Is there any way to get around this (As in, lashing with shardplate on, or lashing people with shardplate on), and, if so, does it have anything to do with the Knights Radiant and/or their ideals? BRANDON SANDERSON This has to do with the nature of the magics in the cosmere. They interfere with one another. Something that contains a lot of power--we call it investiture--resists the efforts of magic to influence it. A strong spirit can interfere as well (Source) Quote HEROWANNABE I’m curious, I’ve got a list of various cosmere bits of metal, and I wonder if you would rank them from like 1 to 10 or easy to difficult on how hard it would be to steelpush on them? HEROWANNABE How about a spike charged with Hemalurgy? Not in a person. BRANDON SANDERSON Not in a person? It depends on how strong—yeah. A spike is moderately—in the realm of these sorts of things—moderately easy to push on, because a spike does not rip off very much investiture. Only enough to short circuit the soul, and it loses that over time. So I would put that at the bottom—with the top being very hard—to be one of the easier things. (Source) (edited for relevancy, emphasis mine) Edited July 10, 2016 by Emerald101 formatting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Script Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 Just my opinion. Nvm and correct me if I'm wrong: It's hard to Invest something Investitured. However Surgebinding aren't, in my perspective, really investing the object itself. It's more like... concentrate the stormlight on one object, then turn the stormlight into Surges, and the Surges (basically from the outside of that object) will then have its effects on the object. So technically the object is invested, but not Investitured. It's the target of Investiture, but it would eventually not contain Investiture. I believe that's how Surgebindings work. On the other hand, iirc, why you can't lash Shardplates is because Shardplates are installed gemstones, which will absorb or interfere the stormlight, thus make Lashings malfunction. So back to the Spikes topic, I believe it's available to Lash the Hemalurgic even Feruchemical spikes, as the stormlight doesn't directly Invest 'em when being Surgebinded. However it would be harder to Invest the more Invested one. For the interference law still exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 IMO, there is still interaction going on, so there would still be interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_warko Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) OK, bearing in mind that I accept the influence/interference of the investiture innate in an object on another, I cannot help but wonder at/if there is an area effect limit. Consider someone: surgebinder or ardent with a fabrial, got hold of nightblood (or a haemalergic spike to reduce the values of energy required. For the record, I'm in the minority who'd prefer nightblood) and soulcast the air around it into stone. How much stone would their have to be to negate the innate resistance to movement by lashing of the rock? Would the invested items "weight" just add to it, or would there be a point whereby you could consider it just a rock? I would think that there would have to be so that begs the question, can we quantify this relationship? Please suspend disbelief/that would never happen for the next part. Put a more gruesome way, a steel inquisitor shows up on Roshar. Kaladin does not like the look of him. Hoid says it's got a spike the size of a kidney stone in it's kidney because Kal's father put it there. Could Kaladin remove it by lashing the kidney? If not, and if there was a handy sized rock directly behind the inquisitor, could Kaladin lash the rock in a direct line through it? Or would the invested item act as a dampening field / blind spot? Edited July 11, 2016 by el_warko Nannas and clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald101 Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 @Sam Script I disagree. Do allomantic pushes/pulls invest the object they're pushing/pulling on? No, they target it. Does the investiture in an object still interfere with it being affected by allomancy? Yes. When Brandon says that magic systems "interfere with one another" that doesn't just mean that it's hard to invest an already invested object, but that it's hard to magically affect an invested object in any way. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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