Unbalanced Sel's Magic and Twisted User

[Yata he/him]

I often have problem to sleep and in a long night my mind follow his own thread to unexpected goals, tonight something struck me. Probably it's just a coincidence or some meaningles fact, but here I am.

Like everyone of you know, on Sel every Magic System is fueled by the Dor, a source of power from the Cognitive Realm come to be by the merging of Devotion and Dominion's powers (like someone more poetic than me said, "The Selish channel their gods' corpses for thier magic") and we know that on Sel there is actually a single magic system Form-Based who manifest itself different in every region/country (this is actually not really important from my point, but it's better to refresh some memories).

On Sel we know at least 6 Magic Systems (some more and some less): AonDor, Dakhor, ChayShan, Forgery, Bloodsealing and an unamed potion's magic.

Here I noticed something strange, the only Magic Systems that twist the users are AonDor and Dakhor, now I know someone may argue saing AonDor doesn't twist the user and only "change" it, but really it's just semantic... There is no a great difference between the Shaod and the Dakhor pray to change a monk (just one of these is automated and the other is not).

These are also the only Magic Systems that seem align with Devotion (AonDor) and Dominion (Dahkor)'s Intents. Therefore this is my point:

Is It possible that the Magic Users were twisted/changed to allow them to filter the Dor and use only the Devotion OR Dominion's Investiture to perform their Magic ? (or some other unbalance in their magic need a not-standard user to be used)

I am not really convinced on this idea, but it isn't something a can simply ignore without some counterproof.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Yata

[AndrolGenhald]

Well, we know Dahkor can't heal (as far as they know), so maybe there is something to this.

[Pathfinder]

34 minutes ago, AndrolGenhald said:

Well, we know Dahkor can't heal (as far as they know), so maybe there is something to this.

We do know they can't heal? There is a WoB or actual statement in the book? I always thought the Dakhor had natural accelerated healing. I am not saying you are wrong, but its been awhile since I read Elantris, could you provide a reference to refresh my memory?

[AndrolGenhald]

They may have natural accelerated healing, but I just finished reading the 10th anniversary edition this week and towards the end Dilaf talks about how he had to take his wife (I think...gf maybe?) to Elantris to have her healed with AonDor since Dahkor is unable to heal.

[Pathfinder]

11 minutes ago, AndrolGenhald said:

They may have natural accelerated healing, but I just finished reading the 10th anniversary edition this week and towards the end Dilaf talks about how he had to take his wife (I think...gf maybe?) to Elantris to have her healed with AonDor since Dahkor is unable to heal.

Ah gotcha. I thought you meant the Dakhor monks themselves could not heal from injuries. Now I understand what you meant.

[Yata he/him]

It's possible, but may be a simple fact of working parameters.

Dahkor's magic is all about self enhancment. Everytime we saw Dahkor's magic works outside of the user, it's something raw (like Aon Interference). Probably you can't "heal" just because a Dahkor has not flexibility in his power's use.

For example we don't know even if ChayShan give some healing abilities to the user

[Szmit]

On 24.06.2016 at 7:07 PM, Yata said:

I often have problem to sleep and in a long night my mind follow his own thread to unexpected goals, tonight something struck me. Probably it's just a coincidence or some meaningles fact, but here I am.

Like everyone of you know, on Sel every Magic System is fueled by the Dor, a source of power from the Cognitive Realm come to be by the merging of Devotion and Dominion's powers (like someone more poetic than me said, "The Selish channel their gods' corpses for thier magic") and we know that on Sel there is actually a single magic system Form-Based who manifest itself different in every region/country (this is actually not really important from my point, but it's better to refresh some memories).

On Sel we know at least 6 Magic Systems (some more and some less): AonDor, Dakhor, ChayShan, Forgery, Bloodsealing and an unamed potion's magic.

Here I noticed something strange, the only Magic Systems that twist the users are AonDor and Dakhor, now I know someone may argue saing AonDor doesn't twist the user and only "change" it, but really it's just semantic... There is no a great difference between the Shaod and the Dakhor pray to change a monk (just one of these is automated and the other is not).

These are also the only Magic Systems that seem align with Devotion (AonDor) and Dominion (Dahkor). Therefore this is my point:

Is It possible that the Magic Users were twisted/changed to allow them to filter the Dor and use only the Devotion OR Dominion's Investiture to perform their Magic ? (or some other unbalance in their magic need a not-standard user to be used)

I am not really convinced on this idea, but it isn't something a can simply ignore without some counterproof.

I don't realy belive that any of these systems filter investiture from one of shards. 

People of Elantris are LITERALY GODS, which does seem like effect of dominion, and Dakhor surely requires a lot of devotion to be used. 

As far as I see it EVERY Dor-based-system requires a lot of devotion to master, and in exchange gives you dominion over something.

[Sam Script he/him]

5 hours ago, Szmit said:

People of Elantris are LITERALY GODS, which does seem like effect of dominion, and Dakhor surely requires a lot of devotion to be used. 

Excuse me..? Isn't AonDor of Devotion and Dakhor of Dominion? I'm pretty sure about that. Any quotes or WoB against this?

[Jondesu he/him]

1 hour ago, Sam Script said:

Excuse me..? Isn't AonDor of Devotion and Dakhor of Dominion? I'm pretty sure about that. Any quotes or WoB against this?

We don't have any confirmation that I'm aware of, and I'm of the opinion it's reversed. I even made a thread about it: Alignment of the Shards on Sel

jW

[Sam Script he/him]

4 hours ago, Jondesu said:

We don't have any confirmation that I'm aware of, and I'm of the opinion it's reversed. I even made a thread about it: Alignment of the Shards on Sel

jW

1. Aona and AonDor. It's not a coincidence, as well as Skai and Skaze is. It's a strong evidence so far, rather than our own interpretations.

2. And don't forget that the voice Raoden heard in the Elantrian Pool. It tended to be feminine and soft, persuading him to devote himself in. No matter what state the voice is, it's more likely of Devotion.

3. The Shaod affects those who devoted themselves into something, it corresponded to Intent Devotion, while Fjordell is yearn to rule the whole Sycla, showing its Intent Dominion.

Just provide some conservative opinions that shouldn't be ignored. Do we have any quotes that AonDor is of Devotion?

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Most likely, all of Selish magics use the Dor (which is a fusion of Devotion and Dominion) though some I hazard, use one aspect more than the other; in this case AonDor is primarily but not completely of Devotion whilst Dakhor may well be primarily, but not completely, Dominion.\

Now, that isn't to say that you couldn't use either Shard to power any of the magic systems...however it is possible that any of these magic systems may not exist without this current alignment or even function as intended if powered by just one of the Shards. I'd venture a guess as to say that it is possible to channel more of Shard than the other, but not one Shard completely. Until we know how the Dor functioned before Aona and Skai's deaths (moreover, how it actually functions now and what part Initiation plays in it would be even better) but I guess we'll have to wait for the Elantris sequels.

I wouldn't put Dakhor healing out of the race just yet, it seems like it could be possible...ust probably not worth the pain and suffering to go through  Again, we need more events of it being explained and used (Hurry up Khriss!)

[Yata he/him]

Like ParadoxSpren said it's hard to tell "it's in this way...easy" on Sel.

We are in a place where quite all we know about Shard, MagicSystems , Initiation, ecc may don't matter.

The Dor isn't just D&D's Investiture together (like may be Harmony's Investiture). It's D&D's Investiture merged and placed in a Realm different from the rightful one for Shard's power ( I wrote a theory about the Dor as a new Shard, you may find it in my signature if you are interested).

Also said that the "this system is of Devotion" or "this system is of Dominion" it's quite a meaningless because we have WoB about a Single Magic System on Sel that expless itself different in way as Regional Sub-Magic Systems.

We don't even know if the Magic Sytems we see now are there before D&D's murdering. If they are ex novo Magic Systems borned from the Dor or ancient Magic Systems adapted to the Dor.

We know for sure that:

- The Selish's Focus is Form.

- Seon and Skaze are Devotion or Dominion's Splinters

But our sure knowledge about Selish's Investiture finish with this two informations and the rest is just something we speculated on.

This is why I find a real mystery the Selish's Magic. It's a special case, it's something hidden in full sight ... And I like solving mystery  ...But we have just partial information and it's really hard.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Yata

[kenod]

I personally have the feeling that the changes in the magic users is because they constantly have high levels of Investure forced through them, which is warping them (think Savant). The same is happening to the Dakhor Monks, who have their magic symbols in their body, which are constantly on and providing Investure. All the other systems don't use the body to channel Investure or are low-Investure or need to be activated.

P.S.
I am guessing that ChayShan users can reach a similar effect if they are constantly using their powers, the same as Savants.

[feldi]

On 6/28/2016 at 11:09 PM, kenod said:

I personally have the feeling that the changes in the magic users is because they constantly have high levels of Investure forced through them, which is warping them (think Savant). The same is happening to the Dakhor Monks, who have their magic symbols in their body, which are constantly on and providing Investure. All the other systems don't use the body to channel Investure or are low-Investure or need to be activated.

P.S.
I am guessing that ChayShan users can reach a similar effect if they are constantly using their powers, the same as Savants.

I'm not sure if Hemolurgic creations act the same way, but it's quit obvious that too much Investure is not good for your body and it will change your body. A lot.

[Yata he/him]

54 minutes ago, feldi said:

I'm not sure if Hemolurgic creations act the same way, but it's quit obvious that too much Investure is not good for your body and it will change your body. A lot.

Say that to Susebron XD

[feldi]

On 7/7/2016 at 4:37 PM, Yata said:

Say that to Susebron XD

I'll say his the perfect example, his body is not only changed but also can be changed at will