+Lewis Nethur He/Him Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 The following is a quote by Jezrien in the prelude to WoK: Quote A…a decision has been made. It is time for the Oathpact to end.” ... “Ishar believes that so long as there is one of us still bound to the Oathpact, it may be enough. There is a chance we might end the cycle of Desolations.” I've heard people speculate from this quote that the Heralds believe there's a way for humanity to overcome Odium, possibly without them. However, it sounds to me like the opposite, ie: the Heralds have decided to end the cycle by...ending the world? Maybe even supporting Odium to some extent. My speculation then is that the Heralds End Game is ultimately: to die in a manner that doesn't send them back to...wherever it is they go between Desolations. The easiest way I can think of for them to achieve that goal would be to destroy humanity, or release Odium back into the cosmere at large. This would make Hoid's mission: to see that humanity survives the Desolation, Odium is killed if possible, and if he isn't, to kill at least one Herald to keep the Oathpact going.
Elendtheking Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 From what i understand, the heralds are tortured between desolations on a planed named braize ( they have to go there if they didn't die and they are sent there if they die). At the end of the last desolation they decided not to go there and leave taln alone in order not to suffer anymore. They foolishly hoped, thought it's more an excuse, that the oathpact wouldn't be broken with only taln suffering (perhaps they thought he wouldn't go mad (heralds have to go mad for desolations to start)) hope this helped
+Lewis Nethur He/Him Posted June 24, 2016 Author Posted June 24, 2016 That's the thing, I'm proposing that they didn't really care about maintaining the Oathpact at all and their goal at this point is solely to avoid going back to being tortured. Consequently, I wouldn't be surprised to see them take up arms against the new Radiants since, if Odium breaks free of Roshar, they might not get tortured even if they do eventually die.
Sam Script he/him Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Elendtheking said: From what i understand, the heralds are tortured between desolations on a planet named braize ( they have to go there if they didn't die and they are sent there if they die). Wait do we have any citation or WoB to assure that the tortureland is Braize?
Blackhoof Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Elendtheking said: From what i understand, the heralds are tortured between desolations on a planed named braize ( they have to go there if they didn't die and they are sent there if they die). At the end of the last desolation they decided not to go there and leave taln alone in order not to suffer anymore. They foolishly hoped, thought it's more an excuse, that the oathpact wouldn't be broken with only taln suffering (perhaps they thought he wouldn't go mad (heralds have to go mad for desolations to start)) hope this helped I think it is more that any Herald has to break under torture, not go mad. The first time one gives up, they are all sent back. That's why there has been such a long gap between desolations this time- Taln was such a tank that he endured torture for 4500 years, so long that he went mad, whereas the weaker Healds usually only last a few hundred years before giving out. That's the thing, I'm proposing that they didn't really care about maintaining the Oathpact at all and their goal at this point is solely to avoid going back to being tortured. Consequently, I wouldn't be surprised to see them take up arms against the new Radiants since, if Odium breaks free of Roshar, they might not get tortured even if they do eventually die. Well given Nalen's actions, that certainly seems likely. The Heralds have started going insane, and their goals and motivations at this point are up in the air. I think many have a strong sense of guilt for what they did and leaving Taln. But surely there must be some of the nine left that still care about humanity enough to fight for them. Edited June 24, 2016 by Blackhoof 2
Emerald101 he/him Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 3 hours ago, Blackhoof said: But surely there must be some of the nine left that still care about humanity enough to fight for them. It's sentences like these that make Brandon sit back and laugh like a mad scientist. 3
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted June 26, 2016 Posted June 26, 2016 On 25/06/2016 at 3:32 AM, Emerald101 said: It's sentences like these that make Brandon sit back and laugh like a mad scientist. Well...one did go back for their Blade...but we don't know who and if it was out of guilt or not.
Lopens_Cousin Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) 15 hours ago, ParadoxSpren said: Well...one did go back for their Blade...but we don't know who and if it was out of guilt or not. Wa wa whaaaat?! Someone went back for their blade?! Edited June 27, 2016 by lopens_cousin
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 There's a WoB floating around somewhere, IIRC
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 I think they all have their own motives now, since they all seem to be somewhat mad. I dont think they have some overarching plot. They just act in their madness, or for themselves.
Jondesu he/him Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 On June 26, 2016 at 5:39 AM, ParadoxSpren said: Well...one did go back for their Blade...but we don't know who and if it was out of guilt or not. Yep, and I suspect it's not who we think it is. Nalan, for instance, I think is just using a Shardblade, not his Honorblade (we never see him use any surges that I recall), and it can't be Taln, because he didn't leave his (he and his blade went to Braize, or wherever the Heralds go between Desolations). Shalash is unlikely, but possible, and we don't know enough about the others right now, even though we've supposedly seen them all, I think. My money's actually on Jezrien, but that he did it out of an almost mad guilt, and when he realized that it didn't matter and he couldn't change the outcome, he descended into a drunken stupor for most of the last 4000+ years. (That's a lot of alcohol, especially if the Herald's physical abilities make getting drunk more difficult. ) jW
AndrolGenhald Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, Jondesu said: Yep, and I suspect it's not who we think it is. Nalan, for instance, I think is just using a Shardblade, not his Honorblade (we never see him use any surges that I recall), and it can't be Taln, because he didn't leave his (he and his blade went to Braize, or wherever the Heralds go between Desolations). Shalash is unlikely, but possible, and we don't know enough about the others right now, even though we've supposedly seen them all, I think. My money's actually on Jezrien, but that he did it out of an almost mad guilt, and when he realized that it didn't matter and he couldn't change the outcome, he descended into a drunken stupor for most of the last 4000+ years. (That's a lot of alcohol, especially if the Herald's physical abilities make getting drunk more difficult. ) jW We don't see him use surges for sure, but we see him use Stormlight. So the question is, is passive use of Stormlight possible for the Heralds without their Honorblades? Personally I don't think so.
Jondesu he/him Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 Just now, AndrolGenhald said: We don't see him use surges for sure, but we see him use Stormlight. So the question is, is passive use of Stormlight possible for the Heralds without their Honorblades? Personally I don't think so. Where do we see that? I didn't recall it, I'll have to reread the passage again. jW
AndrolGenhald Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 Just now, Jondesu said: Where do we see that? I didn't recall it, I'll have to reread the passage again. jW Lift mentions that "Darkness was awesome too", and she sees him glowing faintly.
Jondesu he/him Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, AndrolGenhald said: Lift mentions that "Darkness was awesome too", and she sees him glowing faintly. Ah, right, thanks. That's true, and if they can't use Stormlight without their blades, that would make it likely that he was the one after all. I do wonder if they're always bonded to the Honorblades in some way (I doubt they could have broken the bonds easily, if nothing else), so it's possible that even if he didn't go back for his blade, he can still use Stormlight or even possibly the Surges themselves, which could throw off all our guessing if so. jW
AndrolGenhald Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) Can't be Jezrien, the Stone Shamans gave his blade to Szeth, and now Kaladin has it. Edited June 27, 2016 by AndrolGenhald Grammar
thegatorgirl00 she/her Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 58 minutes ago, Jondesu said: Yep, and I suspect it's not who we think it is. Nalan, for instance, I think is just using a Shardblade, not his Honorblade (we never see him use any surges that I recall), and it can't be Taln, because he didn't leave his (he and his blade went to Braize, or wherever the Heralds go between Desolations). Shalash is unlikely, but possible, and we don't know enough about the others right now, even though we've supposedly seen them all, I think. My money's actually on Jezrien, but that he did it out of an almost mad guilt, and when he realized that it didn't matter and he couldn't change the outcome, he descended into a drunken stupor for most of the last 4000+ years. (That's a lot of alcohol, especially if the Herald's physical abilities make getting drunk more difficult. ) jW Is there a WoB that we've seen them all? I haven't heard that before.
Jondesu he/him Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, AndrolGenhald said: Can't be Jezrien, the Stone Shaman's gave his blade to Szeth, and now Kaladin has it. Do we know for sure that's Jezrien's blade? I've seen that mentioned, but wasn't sure if it was confirmed. 1 hour ago, thegatorgirl00 said: Is there a WoB that we've seen them all? I haven't heard that before. I think there was a WoB, I'll look for it. Edit: it doesn't say what I thought. Quote 18 INTERVIEW: Dec 6th, 2014 Orem Signing Report - Zas678 (Paraphrased) QUESTION (PARAPHRASED) Have we seen all of the Heralds? BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED) I'm pretty sure I've mentioned all of them, and you've seen a number of them, such as Shalash running around [I'm pretty sure he mentioned something that made it clear that it was the Mistress, or the person cutting off the faces] TAGS heralds, jW Edited June 27, 2016 by Jondesu
CaptainRyan he/him Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Jondesu said: Do we know for sure that's Jezrien's blade? I've seen that mentioned, but wasn't sure if it was confirmed. It is the Windrunner blade and Jezrien was the Herald of the Windrunners.
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 There was a few comments in @Argent's topic about locating all the Heralds that has the WoB I'm thinking of
Jondesu he/him Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 7 hours ago, CaptainRyan said: It is the Windrunner blade and Jezrien was the Herald of the Windrunners. I guess it was the confirmation of Jezrien as the Windrunner Herald I couldn't remember seeing stated. Is there a chart or something in the books that states all of those? It's probably one of the images I didn't look at because I have the ebook version and they're all too hard to read. Sounds like my theory's blown out of the water, though. Storms, I thought that motivation made sense! jW
Emerald101 he/him Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 15 hours ago, Jondesu said: Is there a chart or something in the books that states all of those? It's probably one of the images I didn't look at because I have the ebook version and they're all too hard to read. jW IIRC, it's never explicitly mentioned, but heavily implied. The essence table in the Ars Arcanum place the number 'Jes' in the first row (the other numbers also appear to line up with their respective heralds), along with the attributes of protecting/leading - which line up with the oaths Kaladin has sworn so far. the position of first in that table makes sense thematically for Jezrien being the leader of the heralds, and also lines up with the position of the Windrunner's in the KR chart and with the placing of their surges in their respective list. Additionally, the glyph of jezrien's honorblade appears on the cover of TWoK (which we know to be Kaladin's book) hardback copies (under the dustcover). Given all that, the implication is pretty clear. 1
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