theory Fridge Logic: The Shadesmar Sun and Adonalsium

[Aleph he/him]

Note: I will try to consistently use "Shadesmar" to refer specifically to the region in the Cognitive Realm that corresponds to Roshar/Greater Roshar.

When Shallan first went to Shadesmar in WoK, I didn't think much about the sun. I didn't really know anything about the Cognitive Realm, so I sort of implicitly thought, "Sure, that's the cognitive representation of the sun." But after her visit near the beginning of WoR something seemingly really obvious hit me. We've seen that in Shadesmar, physical objects, seemingly no matter how large they are, become spheres. We have no reason to think that a star, just because it's huge and produces light in the Physical Realm, would be huge and produce light in the Cognitive Realm as well. Rather, we've seen that the consciousness of a being in the Physical Realm appears in the Cognitive Realm as a pale light.

That is not the sun. It's a mind.

I think the sun in Shadesmar is the cognitive self, or the cognitive shadow, or something like that, of Adonalsium. Most of what I've seen has tried to figure out what the sun is in terms of what we know to exist on Roshar. People have discussed it being the mind of Honor and/or Cultivation, or being a countdown clock of some kind until the next desolation. I think this totally misses the sense of scale. Planets in the Physical Realm are regions in the Cognitive Realm. Everything is scaled down. The vast emptiness of space is reduced to mountain ranges between the regions. (Side note: It's kind of funny to wonder whether there's a sad little sphere representing Roshar's sun somewhere in the mountains surrounding Shadesmar.) With this distortion of scale, the sun that is visible in Shadesmar should be visible in the Cognitive Realm region corresponding to any other planet. What is a dwarf galaxy in the Physical Realm is more or less a planet in the Cognitive Realm, at least in terms of distances, so the sun in Shadesmar is the sun everywhere.

This is where the more savvy among you will, I hope, fill me in or shoot me down. Brandon has said that matter and energy are essentially manifestations of Investiture. We know that a shard of Adonalsium doesn't act on its own in a meaningful, sentient way. It affects the cognition of a person who holds it, but it doesn't seem to think for itself. I think that the shards of Adonalsium were, at least at the time of the shattering, literally physical pieces of the body of Adonalsium. These pieces by their nature held an incredible amount of Investiture, granting all kinds of power and causing all manner of effects on the holder that you wouldn't normally associate with a simple physical object. I think the cognitive self of Adonalsium remains, independent of a physical body. I haven't read Secret History yet (Bands of Mourning is next on my reading list!), but I know that Kelsier discovered it is possible to linger in the Cognitive Realm after physical death, and that it seems to be dependent on the significance of the being who died. If Kelsier could stick around, Adonalsium surely could have. I don't know how the spiritual figures into any of this, because, well, nobody seems to know much of anything about the Spiritual Realm yet.

If I'm wrong and Adonalsium's mind isn't still around, it does stand to reason that the cognitive shadow of Adonalsium would be incredible. The Stormfather himself is the result of the worship of a portion of the population of a single shardworld. Imagine the cognitive shadow of a being who is as close to God as we've seen (short of the God Beyond, whose consciousness I expect wouldn't have a finite size), whose death directly or indirectly motivated just about every story we've been told in this setting, whose essence literally makes up the physical substrate of the Cosmere, and who is known of by at least part of the population on seemingly every world. The Cognitive realm is structured by perception, and Adonalsium seems like a good candidate for the radiant center of sentient perception in the Cosmere.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Aleph

[Sam Script he/him]

This makes a lot of sense! At least for me. Especially the reasonable observations and deduction. Thx for the idea:)

[Argel he/him]

If Adonalsium was shattered on Yolin, why would his CS show up in Shadesmar (Roshar's CR)?

[Yata he/him]

Nice theory, but I find more likely another theory about the Sun on the Cognitive.

Some people thinks it's the Spiritual Realm visible from the Cognitive.

For example we know that the Spiritual realm is Space indipendent and therefore we see it the same in every point of the Cosmere (in Cognitive Realm).

There are other things that gives credit to this idea but I don't know if you read other books therefore I will put it under spoiler.

Mistborn Secret History Spoiler:

Spoiler

We saw Ruin in the Cognitive as a dark mist from the above that slighty oscure the Sun. We know that the main part of Shard's power is in the Spiritual ream. And this may be show as Ruin that propagate itself from the "sun/spiritual realm".

Or a Shard when describes the Realmatic theory to a mortal, use this exactly analogy: The Spiritual Realm is the Sun who generates light, the Physical realm is the Shadow on the ground and the Cognitive the Space between them made by the light ray

 

Edited February 26, 2017 by Yata

[Pagerunner he/him]

Secret History has a lot of relevant information; there are some things you say in here that are definitely on the right track. I don't want to go into too many specifics, so as not to spoil you, but I do want to correct something you've said towards the end of your post with some info we knew before Secret History came out.

1 hour ago, Aleph said:

If I'm wrong and Adonalsium's mind isn't still around, it does stand to reason that the cognitive shadow of Adonalsium would be incredible. The Stormfather himself is the result of the worship of a portion of the population of a single shardworld. Imagine the cognitive shadow of a being who is as close to God as we've seen (short of the God Beyond, whose consciousness I expect wouldn't have a finite size), whose death directly or indirectly motivated just about every story we've been told in this setting, whose essence literally makes up the physical substrate of the Cosmere, and who is known of by at least part of the population on seemingly every world. The Cognitive realm is structured by perception, and Adonalsium seems like a good candidate for the radiant center of sentient perception in the Cosmere.

It seems you're describing a mind sticking around after death as a separate phenomenon than a Cognitive Shadow. But they're the same thing; Cognitive Shadows are what happens when minds stick around after the body dies; they're essentially the Cosmere version of ghosts. For example, Preservation was a Cognitive Shadow, and Brandon has referred to him as such in interviews like these ones. No one on Scadrial knew about Preservation, but he stuck around anyways; Cognitive Shadows are not created or held by peoples' perceptions of them. Also, there is apparently something unique going on with the Stormfather; we recently learned that Nightwatcher and the collective of the Unmade are analogues to the Stormfather for Cultivation and Odium, respectively, and neither of those Shards are dead. (I think.) It's possible that the Splinter that was the Stormfather absorbed the Cognitive Shadow of Honor. But all that's going to say that the Stormfather is not a typical example of a Cognitive Shadow. A Cognitive Shadow is a mind that hangs around in the Cognitive Realm; it's happened several times with Shards, it's happening on Threnody for some reason, and it happened to Kelsier. All of those are Cognitive Shadows, of one sort or another.

Enjoy Secret History when you get there; it will be very eye-opening, and I'm sure you'll be able to add a lot to this theory after that.

[Argent he/him]

4 hours ago, Aleph said:

but I know that Kelsier discovered it is possible to linger in the Cognitive Realm after physical death, and that it seems to be dependent on the significance of the being who died

Actually it depends mostly on Investiture - so Mistings would linger more than muggles, and Mistborn - more than Misting. Kelsier is a special case, however, and I won't spoil it for you with details.

So, for reasons mostly outlined by @Pagerunner I don't think the theory is entirely correct - but I like it. A lot of the counterevidence comes from Secret History and related WoBs, unfortunately, so I'll leave it at that.

[Aleph he/him]

Thanks for the feedback! I will be reading BoM and Secret History very soon, so I'll revise and reconsider after that

@Pagerunner thanks for clearing that up. I was under the impression that "cognitive shadow" refers more explicitly to a being that is created in its own right, physical body included, from the collective perception of another, distinct entity who has died. Again, maybe that's because I haven't read Secret History yet. All the more reason to read on.

Edit: @Argel my supposition is that the sun seen in Shadesmar should be visible from everywhere else in the Cognitive Realm, i.e. including the region corresponding to Yolen. So I'm thinking of it as less local, more global.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Aleph