Argent Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 I started listening to the Graphic Audio adaptation of The Alloy of Law a few days ago, and as is the case with rereads, I noticed some things I had forgotten about. Specifically, something interesting Bloody Tan says in the prologue: Quote “I have seen God, lawkeeper,” Tan whispered. Where was he? “I have seen Death himself, with the nails in his eyes. I have seen the Survivor, who is life.” We've known that Bloody Tan's God - Harmony, presumably - is definitely real, and there is no reason to think he cannot manifest. We know that Death - Ironeyes / Marsh - is also real, and very much visible, and (not only) I have speculated before that he acted as Harmony's agent in contacting Tan and "recruiting" him to participate in the events that would lead to Wax returning to Elendel. But now we also know - or at least strongly suspect - that the Survivor - also walks among the living. For Tan to have seen all three of these monumentally significant figures makes him more important than your average psychopath, I think. Could all three - Sazed, Marsh, and Kelsier - be working together towards a common goal, something that required Wax in Elendel, which in turn required Lessie - Paalm - to either play along and lead him there (which we know she didn't want to do), or be removed from the equation (which is where I believe Tan comes in). I don't know if I have a grand theory in this, but I had forgotten that Tan claims he has seen the Survivor - something I am sure many of us had filed off as the rantings of a madman, but also something we probably need to reconsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 It doesn't hurt to point out that as a madmen, Tan is more susceptible to shardic influence and other forms of mind control, so yeah, the chances of something bigger manipulating him are extremely high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) I'm still of the opinion that Harmony didn't have anything to do with Tan's/Lessie's death. Lessie dying wasn't in the original plan, and the whole "(potentially) creating a serial killer and then arranging his death as a means to an end" doesn't really seem very Harmonic. Leaving the option that everything was just fabrications orchestrated by Paalm/Trell. Edited June 16, 2016 by Kurkistan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie.x.3000 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Well, Wax needed Lessie out of his life in order to return to Elendel, so you need to make up a viable excuse for her to leave. Divorce was probably a bad choice since it seems super out of character, so death was probably the easiest excuse for Harmony to get Lessie out of Wax's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted June 19, 2016 Report Share Posted June 19, 2016 Indications to me are that Tan is not a psychopath; he's psychotic. Mental illness opens one up to all sorts of influence, Shardic and not. It ALSO means that misinterpretation is very likely. It's entirely possible that Tan happened to come across Kell, Marsh and Saze having an argument, shattering an already weak psyche. Or he ran into Kelsier in the Mist (he's been known to visit people) then came across Marsh, and then his mental instability allowed him to hear/see something be shouldn't have. That Tan saw something is almost definite, but I think it's a bit early to say he's beeping directly manipulated by any one of the above. For that matter it could be our interloper's influence as well. Personally, I want to know if he was burning electrum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 I could have sworn there was a WoB where he stated Harmony was not controlling Bloody Tan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Honestly, I may have asked that. I don't remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pathfinder said: I could have sworn there was a WoB where he stated Harmony was not controlling Bloody Tan. I remember a "was tan controlled or influenced by something ?" "yes" but nothing that point on Harmony or something else (a RAFO maybe). But at the moment I can't search them and therefore I may be wrong Edited June 21, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Ok I am utterly shocked because I typed in a search word into the interview database, and the WoB I was looking for actually came up! lol INTERVIEW: Oct 12th, 2015 Shadows of Self-Oak Brook, IL ARGENT Was Bloody Tan influenced and/or controlled by Harmony or one of his agents? During those introductory events [?]? BRANDON SANDERSON Controlled by Harmony? No. ARGENT Was he controlled or influenced by anyone outside of himself? BRANDON SANDERSON [Sounds like he's about to say “yeah”] RAFO. Edited June 21, 2016 by Pathfinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted June 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 ("those introductory events" refers to The Alloy of Law prologue, I guess that didn't get transcribed. Maybe somebody can update the database accordingly.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 What I find very interesting is that based on the WoB, there is another party with enough knowledge to know there was a resistance between Harmony and Paalm, knew the nature of said resistance, and was able to position a pawn into place to force said resistance to a head resulting in Paalm "coming to the dark side" as it were just like it wanted. That is some A level manipulation skills right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Pathfinder said: What I find very interesting is that based on the WoB, there is another party with enough knowledge to know there was a resistance between Harmony and Paalm, knew the nature of said resistance, and was able to position a pawn into place to force said resistance to a head resulting in Paalm "coming to the dark side" as it were just like it wanted. That is some A level manipulation skills right there. I'd call it "shard-level" manipulation skills myself. Their enhanced mind and connection to the spiritual realm allows that kind of stunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 15 hours ago, happyman said: I'd call it "shard-level" manipulation skills myself. Their enhanced mind and connection to the spiritual realm allows that kind of stunt. Except Harmony is also a shard and this entity was able to accomplish all of this right under his nose. That takes experience and skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 5 hours ago, Pathfinder said: Except Harmony is also a shard and this entity was able to accomplish all of this right under his nose. That takes experience and skill. So it's an experienced Shard. Practically all the Shards have more experience than Harmony, so that's not a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 12 minutes ago, happyman said: So it's an experienced Shard. Practically all the Shards have more experience than Harmony, so that's not a surprise. So few things. First I was not disputing that the entity could be a shard, I was pointing out that if the only reason that the entity could manipulate in such a manner was because it was a shard, then Harmony should have been able to meet it toe to toe as he is a shard as well. Secondly, just because another Vessel would have held a shard longer than Harmony, does not mean it would necessarily be able to out think/out position harmony. Preservation and Ruin started on equal footing in lengths of time holding shards, yet Preservation was able to out maneuver Ruin with the aid of his better future sight. All shards have a varying degree of future sight. Finally, Harmony is holding two shards, which would be in an upfront battle, stronger than an another shard alone. So I was merely stating I am interested in finding out what this entity is and how it was able to so aptly out maneuver Harmony. Could this give more credence to the theory that the entity is Odium? Or is it that Bavadin is trickier than we know, and could very well double cross Odium down the line. I want to get to know this spider as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) If the entity is the one we call "Trell". We saw his/her Metal gives some "stealthy" proprieties when used as Spike. It's possible Tan was Spiked with a trellium Spike (something little and hidden). Edited June 23, 2016 by Yata 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 8 hours ago, Yata said: If the entity is already the one we call "Trell". We see his Metal gives some "stealthy" proprieties when used as Spike. It's possible Tan was Spiked with a trellium Spike (something little and hidden). That would also make him easier to manipulate and be influenced by the entity. Makes me wonder how long has this entity's spies and faceless immortals have been hanging around on Scadrial, trying to subvert Harmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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