Curious Wording

[nmgrgtna he/him]

Quote

"Expectation. That is the true soul of art. If you can give a man more than he expects, then he will laud you his entire life...Conversely, if you gain a reputation for being too good, too skilled . . . beware. The better art will be in their heads, and if you give them an ounce less than they imagined, suddenly you have failed. Suddenly you are useless. A man will find a single coin in the mud and talk about it for days, but when his inheritance comes and is accounted one percent less than he expected, then he will declare himself cheated. Wit shook his head, standing up and dusting off his coat. 'Give me an audience who have come to be entertained, but who expect nothing special. To them, I will be a god. That is the best truth I know.'"

Just a strange wording I noticed while reading this through. I can't remember exactly where in the WoK book this quote is, but he is using the word coin instead of sphere in this story. Would that confuse those who are listening? Would Rosharans use the words "Sphere" and "Coin" synonymously?

[Samaldin he/him]

If i remember correctly this is said by Hoid at the end of WoK when he is waiting for the Herald, so it´s not really weird he´s using coin instead of sphere. But nice eye for detail, such things really scream worldhopper (which is still true, only it was said by the most famous worldhopper around)

Also it should confuse those who are listening, but then again they are talking with hoid and where already pretty confused before he got to that word. Worldhopping seems to have the sideefect of making confusing people easy (Vasher with his colour metaphors, Hoid with everything he says, etc)

Edited June 15, 2016 by Samaldin

[Rasarr she/her]

1 hour ago, Samaldin said:

Also it should confuse those who are listening, but then again they are talking with hoid and where already pretty confused before he got to that word. Worldhopping seems to have the sideefect of making confusing people easy (Vasher with his colour metaphors, Hoid with everything he says, etc)

Considering he's talking to a crab-thing in this scene, I don't think it was anyhow confused 

BTW, @antgrgmn, nice catch! Didn't notice that on the re-reads.

[Young Bard he/him]

1 hour ago, Rasarr said:

Considering he's talking to a crab-thing in this scene, I don't think it was anyhow confused 

BTW, @antgrgmn, nice catch! Didn't notice that on the re-reads.

Isn't this the scene where he's talking to a soldier and waiting for Taln?

[Rasarr she/her]

18 minutes ago, The Young Bard said:

Isn't this the scene where he's talking to a soldier and waiting for Taln?

*checks ending of WoR*

Nope. "Ugly lizard-crab thing".

[Samaldin he/him]

Just checked WoK ending and you´re right the quote isn´t from there, i apologise. But still hoid is so mysterious he can even confuse ugly lizard-crab things with ease, who are not even sapient.

[Argent he/him]

Actually, it is weird that he uses coin there. Whatever it is that allows Hoid - and other worldhoppers - to have their words automagically translated should've accounted for the fact that Roshar deals in spheres, no coins. It's not that the Alethi don't have a word for the objects they use as currency, so the Babel fish has to transliterate - which is what happened when Hoid was talking about... dogs, was it?

[Vissy]

Wait, what do they even use to auto-translate themselves on other planets? Wait, the Babel fish - isn't that from Hitchhiker's Guide?

[Samaldin he/him]

I just assumend they use something similiar to Connection feruchemy. Maybe you get automatically Connected to you place if you Worldhop there (something like you´re Connection to your homeplace "breaks" if you travel far enough from it. In Secret History

 

Kelsier was able to undertsand selish when he went outside of scadrial to the fortress, so that could be a clue

Edited June 15, 2016 by Samaldin

[tobar14 he/him]

2 hours ago, Rob Lucci said:

Wait, what do they even use to auto-translate themselves on other planets? Wait, the Babel fish - isn't that from Hitchhiker's Guide?

connection

[Vissy]

So... essentially Demoux and the rest just acquired Connection amulets from Southern Scadrial? Or something like that?

[Eki]

3 minutes ago, Rob Lucci said:

So... essentially Demoux and the rest just acquired Connection amulets from Southern Scadrial? Or something like that?

There might be other techniques, but it seems likely that Connection is involved for all of them. It would, of course, also be possible to learn the languages normally, but that would take a lot of time.

Although, for most of the Cosmere's history, Southern Scadrial hasn't had medallions (or, for that matter, existed like it now does). So either the worldhoppers got medallions from somewhere else (like pre-ash Terris), or they used other types of magic to achieve the same effect.

[Magestar he/him]

A little off-topic, but on the same note, there really should not be any lizards OR crabs on Roshar, right?  So isn't it kind of pointless to use two un-described things to describe something else?

Edited June 15, 2016 by Magestar

[Eki]

2 minutes ago, Magestar said:

A little off-topic, but on the same note, there really should not be any lizards OR crabs on Roshar, right?  So isn't it kind of pointless to use two un-described things to describe something else?

That's from his point of view, how he thinks of the creature. He doesn't say it out loud, and if he did, only the lizard-crab thing would hear him. But yes, that is another thing that a Rosharan person wouldn't say or think, so it should tip off a reader that something weird is up with Wit.

[Magestar he/him]

Just now, Eki said:

That's from his point of view, how he thinks of the creature. He doesn't say it out loud, and if he did, only the lizard-crab thing would hear him. But yes, that is another thing that a Rosharan person wouldn't say or think, so it should tip off a reader that something weird is up with Wit.

It has been a while since I have read WoK or WoR, but isn't there a scene where Hoid/Wit is telling a story to Kaladin, and uses the same analogy?

[Eki]

1 minute ago, Magestar said:

It has been a while since I have read WoK or WoR, but isn't there a scene where Hoid/Wit is telling a story to Kaladin, and uses the same analogy?

It wouldn't surprise me - I think Kaladin is one of the people Hoid is trying to slowly get to become more Cosmere aware. (Also I bet it amuses him greatly!)

[Vissy]

3 hours ago, Eki said:

There might be other techniques, but it seems likely that Connection is involved for all of them. It would, of course, also be possible to learn the languages normally, but that would take a lot of time.

Although, for most of the Cosmere's history, Southern Scadrial hasn't had medallions (or, for that matter, existed like it now does). So either the worldhoppers got medallions from somewhere else (like pre-ash Terris), or they used other types of magic to achieve the same effect.

IIRC, Stormlight Archive (at least the 1st half) takes part just before the events of Alloy of Law. Therefore, if my suspicions about Kelsier and what he's doing are correct, then Demoux and his squad have access to medallions. 

And Kelsier, at least if the stories about those hundreds of medallions laden with his memories circulating around the Basin are correct, is planning something big. 

[Eki]

1 hour ago, Rob Lucci said:

IIRC, Stormlight Archive (at least the 1st half) takes part just before the events of Alloy of Law. Therefore, if my suspicions about Kelsier and what he's doing are correct, then Demoux and his squad have access to medallions. 

And Kelsier, at least if the stories about those hundreds of medallions laden with his memories circulating around the Basin are correct, is planning something big. 

Yeah, but Hoid, for example, has been traveling around since at least Elantris, and probably thousands of years before then.

Also, do we know that there are lots of medallions with Kelsier's memories? We've only seen one of them used, and that one was a 'gift' from Hoid. I was under the impression that the other ones were generic Southern medallions, not even necessarily copperminds.

[Vissy]

That's what I've heard being said. The beggar was Hoid? Do we have a description of him somewhere?

[Argent he/him]

5 minutes ago, Rob Lucci said:

That's what I've heard being said. The beggar was Hoid? Do we have a description of him somewhere?

There was 0 doubt in my mind when I was reading it. I don't remember why, but it was one of the most obvious Hoid appearances to me.

[Eki]

9 hours ago, Eki said:

That's from his point of view, how he thinks of the creature. He doesn't say it out loud, and if he did, only the lizard-crab thing would hear him. But yes, that is another thing that a Rosharan person wouldn't say or think, so it should tip off a reader that something weird is up with Wit.

Actually, I re-read this section, and he eventually does say it out loud to Jasnah. She doesn't react. However cosmere-aware she is, I doubt she would know what lizards or crabs are. She was a bit agitated though, and she isn't fazed when Wit namedrops Elsecalling and implies he personally knew the Almighty either. I wonder how much Jasnah knows, about the Cosmere and about Hoid...

4 hours ago, Rob Lucci said:

That's what I've heard being said. The beggar was Hoid? Do we have a description of him somewhere?

If that's from the thread I think it is from, then that was just a theory, based on a lot of speculation.

And yeah, it was almost certainly Hoid. Hoid tends to change appearances a lot, but he often has white hair and likes to dress up as a beggar. He also likes giving mysterious clues to information the main characters need to know about.

Edit: Huh, I thought double posts merged in the new site... Sorry!

Edited June 16, 2016 by Windrunner

[Vissy]

That's strange indeed. Can we then assume that Hoid has been in contact with Kelsier again?

...and how did their rematch go?

[TySun he/him]

1 hour ago, Argent said:

There was 0 doubt in my mind when I was reading it. I don't remember why, but it was one of the most obvious Hoid appearances to me.

Same here.  I don't have the book in written format so I can't easily look it up, but Hoid either mentions his name or there is a description because I recognized the beggar as Hoid immediately and without a doubt.

[Argent he/him]

So I checked. Here's the relevant passage:

Quote

“You should be away from here, beggar,” Wax said, eyeing the cluster of attendants and coachmen closer to the building’s entrance. “These are private grounds.”
“Oh, my lord, I know it, I do.” The beggar laughed. “I own the place, technically. Now, regarding those coins for old Hoid, my good lord…” He pushed his hand forward farther, eyes staring sightlessly.

I think we can all agree this makes it pretty clear we are dealing with Hoid, yes?