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Kaladin's inability to heal his slave scars


WindCaller

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Hey all! Possible spoilers unless you are up to date with Stormlight and Warbreaker.

Just wondering about a link between Kaladin's healing ability in relation to the Zahel's ability to change how he looks. 

Sanderson has confirmed that the reason Kaladin cannot heal his scars is related to the way that Kaladin still views himself as a slave. 

 

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7058-words-of-radiance-tour-chicago-signing-mar-22/page-2#entry116818

Q [1:01:52]: Why can Stormlight heal Lopen's arm, but can't heal Kaladin's scars?

A: Because a lot of the healing in the cosmere works on principles of expectation and how you envision yourself.

Q: So Kaladin has accepted the scars.

A: And Lopen never accepted the one arm. It's one of these ties when I built the magic systems that I wanted certain threads to run through them, so when I eventually have them being used in the same books, there will be consistency among them, so they won't feel like everything's just thrown together. So, the intention and expectation, for instance, in Warbreaker. What you want to have happen, the expectation, the way you are thinking about things, all that influences what actually happens. Very important for most of the cosmere magics.

 

At the end of war breaker, Zahel (there referred to as Vasher) explains that the Hallendren gods "Look exactly as they think they should. The old ones look old, the heroic ones become strong, the ones who think a beautiful goddess be well endowed become unnaturally voluptuous. It's all about how they perceive themselves"

At which point Viv thinks "and this is how you perceive yourself Vasher? As the scraggly man, rough and unkempt?"

 

This implies that Kaladin could (or any radiant), with the help of storm light as a source, completely change how he looks right? More than just no longer viewing himself as a slave and then healing his scars. If he viewed himself as something more, would he not "heal" himself until he was what he perceived himself to be?

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Probably not.

 

The Cosmere's Healing works with your own Cognitive Aspect, but you can't change drasticaly your Cognitive Aspect because it's influenced by your Spiritual Aspect (A perfect version of yourself).

Your Spirit self will try to return to his rightfull states... you will need a ton of Investiture to "trasform" and other tons to "keep the trasformation" (if it's possible at all)

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I also believe Vasher's ability to transform his appearance was due to him being a Returned.

I think WindCaller's point is that there might be a strong link between that specific aspect of being Returned, and Stormlight healing.

It kinda makes sense to me, but on the other hand (Warbreaker spoilers):

Returned don't seem to have instant healing powers. Or at least, Blushweaver didn't. I don't think Denth was killed by Nightblood, in which case he didn't either. So there is some fundamental difference between healing and shape shifting.

That doesn't mean Kaladin can't learn to do it if he really, really practiced (as Vasher has), but it makes it a bit less likely, I guess.

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Probably not.

The Cosmere's Healing works with your own Cognitive Aspect, but you can't change drasticaly your Cognitive Aspect because it's influenced by your Spiritual Aspect (A perfect version of yourself).

Your Spirit self will try to return to his rightfull states... you will need a ton of Investiture to "trasform" and other tons to "keep the trasformation" (if it's possible at all)

I'm not so sure. If this was the case than other people's perception of you would change how you would heal. I think this has to do with identity, Which seems to a a spiritual aspect.

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I'm not so sure. If this was the case than other people's perception of you would change how you would heal. I think this has to do with identity, Which seems to a a spiritual aspect.

But so far as we know Identity doesn't change with your living experience or some magic systems will notice somethng like that (for example Breath's ownage or Metalminds)

 

My previous post was inspired by a long explaination Mister Sanderson made about how Spiritual Aspect influences the Cognitive and Physical...Now I have not time to search it but if you want to search yourself

it was in a topic about Rashek and his Immortalily trick

Edited by Yata
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Sorry for the double post but I found the Quotes.... I will put it under spoiler because there are some Mistborn's Spoiler and I added some bold part for the usefull information to this topic.

All right, so there are a few things you have to understand about cosmere magics to grok all of this.

 

First, is that magics can be hacked together. You'll see more of this in the future of the cosmere, but an early one is the hack here--where you're essentially powering Feruchemy with Allomancy. (A little more complex than that, but it seems like you get the idea.)
 
The piece you're missing is the nature of a person's Spiritual aspect. This is similar to a Platonic idea--the idea that there's a perfect version of everyone somewhere. It's a mix of their connections to places, people, and times with raw investiture. The soul, you might say.
 
(Note that over time, a person's perception of themselves shapes their cognitive aspect as well, and the cognitive aspect can interfere with thespiritual aspect trying to make the physical aspect repair itself.) Healing in the cosmere often works by aligning your physical self with yourspiritual self--making the physical regrow. More powerful forms of investiture can repair the soul as well.
 
However, your age is part of your Connection to places, people, and times. Your soul "knows" things, like where you were born, what investiture you are aligned with, and--yes--how old you are. When you're healing yourself, you're restoring yourself to a perfect state--when you're done, everything is good. When you're changing your age, however, you are transforming yourself to something unnatural. Against what your soul understands to be true.
 
So the spiritual aspect will push for a restoration to the way you should be. With this compounding hack, you're not changing connection; it's a purely Physical Realm change.
 
This dichotomy cannot remain for long. And the greater the disparity, the more pressure the spirit will exert. Ten or twenty years won't matter much. A thousand will matter a lot. So the only way to use compounding to change your age is to store up all this extra youth in a metalmind, then be constantly tapping it to counteract the soul's attempt to restore you to how you should be.
 
Yes, all of this means there are FAR more efficient means of counteracting aging than the one used by the Lord Ruler. It's a hack, and not meant to be terribly efficient. Eventually, he wouldn't have been able to maintain himself this way at all. Changing connection (or even involving ones Cognitive Aspect a little more) would have been far more efficient, though actively more difficult.
 
Though this is the point where I ping /u/PeterAhlstrom  and get him to double-check all this. Once in a while, my fingers still type the wrong term in places. (See silvereye vs tineye.)



In the end to use "healing" as trasformation tool you have to play with your SpiritWeb's Connections as far as it's possible like it does:

Selish's Forgery

Edited by Yata
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Sorry for the double post but I found the Quotes.... I will put it under spoiler because there are some Mistborn's Spoiler and I added some bold part for the usefull information to this topic.

All right, so there are a few things you have to understand about cosmere magics to grok all of this.

 

First, is that magics can be hacked together. You'll see more of this in the future of the cosmere, but an early one is the hack here--where you're essentially powering Feruchemy with Allomancy. (A little more complex than that, but it seems like you get the idea.)

 

The piece you're missing is the nature of a person's Spiritual aspect. This is similar to a Platonic idea--the idea that there's a perfect version of everyone somewhere. It's a mix of their connections to places, people, and times with raw investiture. The soul, you might say.

 

(Note that over time, a person's perception of themselves shapes their cognitive aspect as well, and the cognitive aspect can interfere with thespiritual aspect trying to make the physical aspect repair itself.) Healing in the cosmere often works by aligning your physical self with yourspiritual self--making the physical regrow. More powerful forms of investiture can repair the soul as well.

 

However, your age is part of your Connection to places, people, and times. Your soul "knows" things, like where you were born, what investiture you are aligned with, and--yes--how old you are. When you're healing yourself, you're restoring yourself to a perfect state--when you're done, everything is good. When you're changing your age, however, you are transforming yourself to something unnatural. Against what your soul understands to be true.

 

So the spiritual aspect will push for a restoration to the way you should be. With this compounding hack, you're not changing connection; it's a purely Physical Realm change.

 

This dichotomy cannot remain for long. And the greater the disparity, the more pressure the spirit will exert. Ten or twenty years won't matter much. A thousand will matter a lot. So the only way to use compounding to change your age is to store up all this extra youth in a metalmind, then be constantly tapping it to counteract the soul's attempt to restore you to how you should be.

 

Yes, all of this means there are FAR more efficient means of counteracting aging than the one used by the Lord Ruler. It's a hack, and not meant to be terribly efficient. Eventually, he wouldn't have been able to maintain himself this way at all. Changing connection (or even involving ones Cognitive Aspect a little more) would have been far more efficient, though actively more difficult.

 

Though this is the point where I ping /u/PeterAhlstrom  and get him to double-check all this. Once in a while, my fingers still type the wrong term in places. (See silvereye vs tineye.)

In the end to use "healing" as trasformation tool you have to play with your SpiritWeb's Connections as far as it's possible like it does:

Selish's Forgery

Nice WoB, thanks for the info.

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About your idea of Identity... To be honest I have to figure what the Identity is yet.

 

A possibility (that I used for a lot of time) is about Identity as a "screenshoot of SpiritWeb"

and an Alluminium Ferring may store his Identity in the same way of a Soulbearer may store his SpiritWeb

but this interpretation have to be wrong because "have a strong or weak" identity has no sense.

 

In the end is still a work in progress

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I think it might have something to do with the fact that what Kaladin is trying to do is healing, and only healing. Healing has its limits, like how Wayne is always mad that when he draws from his health, it makes him un-drunk. So, healing's ultamate goal is to make you perfectly healthy, but if your self image isn't total health, then it makes you healthy except for that small error.

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