Shallan's Farseeing Drawings

[Eki]

Wait, I thought it was Dalinar who wrote the numbers. Am I misremembering? I thought that for one of the highstorms only Dalinar was in the room and then they discovered the writing still. Is that incorrect?

I don't think it's explicitly written out in the text, but I'm pretty sure Renarin had a chance to slip in and write every time. That, combined with him writing very similar things during that one scene (which takes place during a storm), and the revelation that he's a Truthwatcher, makes it pretty certain it was him all along. Dalinar himself was supposed to be the main suspect, of course, but that was just a red herring.

[hoidhunter he/him]

Yeah...I could be wrong...but I got the impression that Dalinar thought he was the one writing on the walls during his visions, but Renarian was in the room or suite of rooms each time.  There was even a scene that seemed to confirm that it was Dalinar, where he examines his own knife, and determines that it was his knife that was used to do the carvings...I believe the insinuation is that Renarian just used Dalinar's knife, then put it back.  Which is also why I disagree (respectfully) with the "he just carries a rock to write with" theory.  I think this has to be something else. (if anything) 

 

My pet theory is that his surge of progression works in a different way than we see with Lift and Ym...maybe instead of accelerating the growth of organic matter, he can somehow cause crem to coalesce into solid stone?

Edited June 2, 2016 by hoidhunter

[Pathfinder]

I dunno, personally I am leaning towards sometimes the butler really did do it. That instead of using some power or always carrying around chalk, Renarin just grabbed anything on hand at the time to make the marks.

[Farnsworth]

It had to be Renarin, because he's the only Truthwatcher, and even if Lightweavers had some forensic abilities, this is pretty darn forensic for just a half-forensic person. 

[FeatherWriter she/her]

On 6/2/2016 at 9:42 AM, Pathfinder said:

I dunno, personally I am leaning towards sometimes the butler really did do it. That instead of using some power or always carrying around chalk, Renarin just grabbed anything on hand at the time to make the marks.

I probably lean towards this interpretation, though I like to think that he probably started carrying around chalk just in case. 

This thread actually makes me wonder if he intentionally went for Dalinar's knife at one point. He's terrified of being discovered, suspicion has already fallen on Dalinar. It's a perfect set up. Maybe Renarin waited until he felt the vision was coming on, snuck into Dalinar's room, and then made sure he had the knife in hand when the vision took control of him. Try to reinforce his cover story...

[Lilaer she/her]

21 hours ago, FeatherWriter said:

I probably lean towards this interpretation, though I like to think that he probably started carrying around chalk just in case. 

This thread actually makes me wonder if he intentionally went for Dalinar's knife at one point. He's terrified of being discovered, suspicion has already fallen on Dalinar. It's a perfect set up. Maybe Renarin waited until he felt the vision was coming on, snuck into Dalinar's room, and then made sure he had the knife in hand when the vision took control of him. Try to reinforce his cover story...

Do you really think that? Wouldn't that be a pretty bad thing for Renarin to do - intentionally drawing suspicion to his own father? I'm surprised because, well, you're the biggest Renarin fan around

I tend to think that Renarin wouldn't do that, because he wouldn't intentionally bring trouble on anyone in his family.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Well, I mean, that is what happened. How much effort Renarin actually put forth towards perpetuating this story and actively framing Dalinar can be questioned, but the fact remains that Renarin knew he was having the visions, and I'm sure he knew that Dalinar was suspecting himself, and he hid behind that lie. If I had to guess, he probably didn't intentionally frame Dalinar the first time it happened. He probably didn't know what was happening the first time the visions took him, honestly. But then everyone suspected Dalinar, including Dalinar himself, and he probably was too afraid to come forward and confess.

And I mean, I have trouble faulting him for it, honestly. Like, first of all, he's seen the way the entire warcamps have turned against his father, whispering that he's mad and has visions. He's a respected general who conquered pretty much all of Alethkar, and they all still treat him horribly. What would they do to the quiet, outcast younger son who everyone already thinks is "creepy and weird"? (Thanks, Shallan.)

Beyond that Dalinar, Adolin, and Navani have decided that Dalinar's visions might have been okay, because they're seeing the past. Renarin himself makes that distinction in the first book. 

Quote

“Dalinar,” Navani said, leaning forward. “The warcamps speak of your episodes. Even the wives of your officers are uncomfortable. They think you fear the storms, or that you have some disease of the mind. This will vindicate you.”

“How? By making me into some kind of mystic? Many will think that the breeze of these visions blows too close to prophecy.”

“You see the past, Father,” Renarin said. “That is not forbidden. And if the Almighty sends them, then how could men question?”

“Adolin and I both spoke with ardents,” Dalinar replied. “They said it was very unlikely that this would come from the Almighty. If we do decide the visions are to be trusted, many will disagree with me.”

-Way of Kings, Ch. 61

Renarin on the other hand? He's explicitly seeing the future, something outright forbidden by Vorinism. That's got to be terrifying for him, thinking what the ardentia and everyone else might do to him if it came to light. (I'll be fascinated to see how other people react now that Renarin's powers are known). He doesn't even think he can trust his family with this secret, because what if they think he's evil or corrupted somehow. Renarin's like the survivor in a horror movie who got the zombie bite, and thinks if anyone finds out, they'll turn on him and realize he's "the enemy." He doesn't have his father's confidence or strength of reputation to protect him. The only way he can think to protect himself is by keeping it secret.

So, when everyone finds the marks and assumes they're just a new development in Dalinar's visions, he lets them. And, I don't think it's too out of the question that after that happened, he might have tried to ensure that everyone kept thinking that, perhaps by using Dalinar's knife. 

As for hurting his family, yes, it did make Dalinar's visions even more suspect, but Dalinar's already been dealing with that whole issue fairly well. Adolin's thoroughly unsettled by the idea, but there's not much he can do about it.

Quote

He turned to Adolin. “I think it’s obvious now that I was behind each of these. Why does that bother you so, son?”

“It’s the idea of you scribbling on the ground,” Adolin said, shivering. “Lost in one of those visions, not in control of yourself.”

“The Almighty’s path for me is a strange one,” Dalinar said. “Why do I need to get the information this way? Scratches on the ground or the wall? Why not say it to me plainly in the visions?”

“It’s foretelling, you realize,” Adolin said softly. “Seeing the future. A thing of the Voidbringers.”

“Yes.”

-Words of Radiance, Ch. 50

Dalinar pretty much just takes it in stride. If they all just think it's a part of what Dalinar's going through, well, they've already accepted that he isn't mad, so they just have to accept this too. And they do. The idea of Dalinar scratching the symbols isn't something that really hurts Dalinar at all throughout Words of Radiance. Maybe it might have in the long run, but Renarin was found out before that happened. I've got a feeling if anyone started actually coming after Dalinar for being a wicked future-seer, Renarin probably would have said something. He tends to be pretty self sacrificing when his family's in danger, but so long as it was still all under wraps, he let them keep thinking it wasn't him.

Sorry, I, as a moderator, am now scolding myself for dragging us somewhat off-topic, but I'm also apparently incapable of writing anything short when Renarin is involved.

[Lilaer she/her]

@FeatherWriter So basically, everyone thinking it was Dalinar will not trouble Dalinar anymore than the rest of the visions already do, but everyone knowing it was Renarin would be huge trouble for Renarin. And that‘s why he would do it. And perhaps that wasn‘t even a really considered decision but one driven by fear.

 

Okay that sounds quite possible. Do we know that Renarin definitely knew from early on that it was himself who drew those scratches? If the book makes that clear, I apologize. I always thought even Renarin himself didn‘t know it for a while.

 

But if he knew it early on, then he at the very least let everyone believe it was Dalinar, if only by not speaking up. Huh. Who would have guessed this from little Renarin.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

It's hard to say definitively.

We only see one of his visions, during the Everstorm, but if the others were anything like what he went through in that room with Shallan, I would say he appeared to be aware of himself, but not in control of himself during these visions. 

Maybe the others were different, but if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say they were probably similar to the one during the Everstorm, so he'd know it was him.

[Eki]

3 hours ago, Lilaer said:

Okay that sounds quite possible. Do we know that Renarin definitely knew from early on that it was himself who drew those scratches? If the book makes that clear, I apologize. I always thought even Renarin himself didn‘t know it for a while.

During the only vision we've seen him have (if that was a vision, we technically don't know if it was just a panic response that time), he was conscious. And he had his spren to talk to. He could have started having future sight before that bond manifested enough, though. I dunno.