KnightGradient Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Ok this theory is a bit weird. We know that Initiation is how you gain access to a magic system, and is generally in line with the Shards Intent. I.e. Snapping is by Preserving yourself, Hemalurgy needs you to Ruin yourself and another. If the Old Magic is what Nightwatcher does, then it's not one of the three or so magic systems on Roshar. Surgebinding is more or less a combo of Honor and Cultivation. The Initiation into it is by bonding symbiotically with something else, and binding yourself to certain Ideals. The Old Magic is gained by, asking for it? Cultivation seems to be giving a little, and taking a little. That's evident in the effect, but not the Initiation. Thus, I theorize the Old Magic is alien. As in, the Old Magic's origin is not native to Roshar. Endowment is the only possible candidate I've come up with, except giving someone something and asking for something are distinct. Welp I've rambled for three paragraphs, so have fun shooting this one down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Does the Old Magic actually give you magic abilities? Because I think that the Nightwatcher just changes the person making the wish in some way, or gives them something. It doesn't actually enable them to use magic. I think you can compare it with Kandra. They have special abilities, but don't actually use magic (except for the hemalurgy that gives them sentience, perhaps Mistwraiths are a better example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 It seems like the Nightwatcher giveth, and the Nightwatcher taketh away. One man got some cloth to sell, and got in return his vision flipped upside down. You have something removed in exchange for something given. This could be a magic system not utilized by a person, but a Shard or powerful spren. We don't know very much, but I think it's safe to say that, with the exception of Hoid and other worldhoppers, the only influences on Roshar are the result of the three Shards we know of. With the variety of WoB's we have, it's not likely that Sanderson could have wiggled out of saying that the Nightwatcher is alien. Or, at least, more alien than the Shards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 It seems like the Nightwatcher giveth, and the Nightwatcher taketh away. One man got some cloth to sell, and got in return his vision flipped upside down. You have something removed in exchange for something given. This could be a magic system not utilized by a person, but a Shard or powerful spren. We don't know very much, but I think it's safe to say that, with the exception of Hoid and other worldhoppers, the only influences on Roshar are the result of the three Shards we know of. With the variety of WoB's we have, it's not likely that Sanderson could have wiggled out of saying that the Nightwatcher is alien. Or, at least, more alien than the Shards. We also know that Adolnasium itself had something to do with Roshar, before the Shattering. The Nightwatcher might be an Adolnasium-aligned spren. That said, I think Wyndle refers to the Nightwatcher as "Mother" or something, and Wyndle feels very much of Cultivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 There's no solid evidence that the Nightwatcher is Initiating anyone in using the Old Magic. Initiation gives you the ability to to use and control magic yourself, but the people who have gone to receive the Old Magic seem to simply have magic used on them, similar to the Hemalurgic chimaeras, and don't display any ability to control their "curses" and "blessings" themselves. It's possible they are initiated, but we've never seen them exercise that control, but it seems relatively unlikely at this point, especially given that we have hints that Cultivation's magic is tied up with the Knights Radiant the same way that Honour's is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CabbageHead he/him Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 We also know that Adolnasium itself had something to do with Roshar, before the Shattering. The Nightwatcher might be an Adolnasium-aligned spren. That said, I think Wyndle refers to the Nightwatcher as "Mother" or something, and Wyndle feels very much of Cultivation. I don't think we really have a good picture of the relationships between the Shards and the spren. We know there were spren and the Listeners before the Shards arrived. After that, it gets murkier. The Stormfather refers to himself as a sliver of the Almighty, but Eshonai refers to him as a traitor to the Listeners, which is suggestive of him having been around before the Almighty. Both could be true; he could pre-date the Almighty, but have later been imbued with some of his power. The Stormfather refers to the Listeners as "the old people", and their most obvious defining trait, being able to unbond one spren and bond a new one to assume a new form, is very similar to the idea of the old magic both giving you something and taking something else away. This could point to the Nightwatcher, who Cultivation spren like Wyndle refer to as their mother, also having been around before the Shards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eki Posted May 22, 2016 Report Share Posted May 22, 2016 I read somewhere that the Stormfather is a merging of an older spren and the cognitive shadow of Tanavast, but I don't remember if that was a theory or fact Cultivation is alive though (Hoid refers to her as such), so she can't have the exact same relationship to the Nightwatcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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