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Baby Breath


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I recently found a WoB that said that, in effect, that Sanderson didn't want to figure out when Nalthians got their Breath, whether at birth or sometime before, as well as how the Breath got there. He said that he would let the fanbase see what they could think of.

This is the fanbase. Let's get started.

The first part of the question is getting into a touchy subject, with the controversy over abortion. Thus, I am going to the book.

The God King was born dead, and then Returned. The cases where someone without a Breath has Returned are very few, if any, and would have weird side effects, apparently. Thus, it seems logical that, at some point in the gestation period, the baby recieves a Breath.

The second part is much harder. How does the child get the Breath? Does the mother grow another Breath and give it to the baby? Is something else going on? I have no good ideas.

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 The God King was born dead, and then Returned. The cases where someone without a Breath has Returned are very few, if any, and would have weird side effects, apparently. Thus, it seems logical that, at some point in the gestation period, the baby recieves a Breath.

 

In fact, no Drab can return:

 

Zas678

Can a Drab Return?

Brandon Sanderson

A Drab can not Return as the Returned are known, and there are things about the Drab that are not completely understood. But a Drab without a Breath, it’s going to be very hard. Drabs do not Return. Good question, by the way. No one has ever asked me that before.

(Well, this WoB doens't exactly say that a Drab can't Return, but almost. So...)

I don't think that there's a major different between someone born on Nalthis with no Breath and a Drab. I mean, a Drab basically is a Nalthisian (??) without a Breath, so the result is the same as if he was born Breathless. Except maybe on his Soul, since that being invested with a Breath should lead to some changes on the soul.

For the second part, I don't konw either. We have a WoB concerning how this happen on Scadrial: babies have the piece of Preservation in them since the moment of their conception (I can't find this WoB, I am wrong?). It may be the same on Nalthis, as it may not. The question is the same though: if a baby is invested since its conception (btw, is it the rigth word?), what happen to the Investiture if there's voluntar/involuntar abortion? Same question about death in general: when someone dies, where goes his investiture?

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The God King was born dead, and then Returned. The cases where someone without a Breath has Returned are very few, if any, and would have weird side effects, apparently. Thus, it seems logical that, at some point in the gestation period, the baby recieves a Breath.

This is a false in-world story, the God Kings has nothing different than any other Returned.

The Priests simply take babies who die as infants and then Returned, not a baby deads at the birth.

 

 

 

For the second part, I don't konw either. We have a WoB concerning how this happen on Scadrial: babies have the piece of Preservation in them since the moment of their conception (I can't find this WoB, I am wrong?). It may be the same on Nalthis, as it may not. The question is the same though: if a baby is invested since its conception (btw, is it the rigth word?), what happen to the Investiture if there's voluntar/involuntar abortion? Same question about death in general: when someone dies, where goes his investiture?

After death, their Investiture "returns to the Cosmere" (it's stated in BoM). Therefore Preservation's Investiture of Scadrial's Soul return to Preservation and Breath return to Endowment.

Edited by Yata
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I believe that once a baby attains the Cognitive identity of a human, it is Endowed with a single Breath.

Cognitive Identity, isn't that (paraphrasing Emperor's Soul) how a thing is viewed and how it views itself? So once something is considered a human, and considers itself a human? Would that mean once the embryo develops brain functions/starts to think?

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Cognitive Identity, isn't that (paraphrasing Emperor's Soul) how a thing is viewed and how it views itself? So once something is considered a human, and considers itself a human? Would that mean once the embryo develops brain functions/starts to think?

 

It might also depend on when the society considers the fetus to be a human.

 

Maybe the Breath doesn't come all at once, but develops during pregnancy and is a full-size "Breath" shortly before birth.

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I thought breath was just part of the Nalthian spiritweb? (since non-nalthians don't have breath). I thought that was a soul thing, not a cognitive aspect.

 

Therefore the moment a baby develops sDNA is when it receives it's breath- which has nothing to do with how people "view" the fetus.

... Right? 

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I thought breath was just part of the Nalthian spiritweb? (since non-nalthians don't have breath). I thought that was a soul thing, not a cognitive aspect.

 

Therefore the moment a baby develops sDNA is when it receives it's breath- which has nothing to do with how people "view" the fetus.

... Right?

That's one touchy subject somewhat avoided. I didn't think of that, but you absolutely have a point

Now, I think it's Spiritweb might be being formed during the entire 9 months of gestation, and Breath more or less starts the process.

If/when we go to Sanderson with these theories, we need to ask him about the complexity of an infant's Spiritweb.

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This is a false in-world story, the God Kings has nothing different than any other Returned.

The Priests simply take babies who die as infants and then Returned, not a baby deads at the birth.

From what I understand, this is often how it happens, but not always. Sometimes the next God king really is the son of the current one. We don't know how that happens, or if that child is stillborn or not.
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From what I understand, this is often how it happens, but not always. Sometimes the next God king really is the son of the current one. We don't know how that happens, or if that child is stillborn or not.

We know that a Returned under some circumstances may reproduce, but I really don't think the offspring born dead and then Returns... Because if a Returned's son is also a Returned. The existence of Siri's bloodline is a no sense. They are the offspring of Vo and from him they inherited some piece of Divine Breath... but they are regular Humans (maybe they have a greater chance to Return but nothing more)

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We know that a Returned under some circumstances may reproduce, but I really don't think the offspring born dead and then Returns... Because if a Returned's son is also a Returned. The existence of Siri's bloodline is a no sense. They are the offspring of Vo and from him they inherited some piece of Divine Breath... but they are regular Humans (maybe they have a greater chance to Return but nothing more)

That's a good point. In the book we also hear of the daughter of a God king, with no mention that she was Returned.
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I thought breath was just part of the Nalthian spiritweb? (since non-nalthians don't have breath). I thought that was a soul thing, not a cognitive aspect.

 

Therefore the moment a baby develops sDNA is when it receives it's breath- which has nothing to do with how people "view" the fetus.

... Right? 

There's also the possibility that the part of the soul that the Breath is is the "raw investiture" and so potentially unrelated the Connections that make up the rest of someone's spiritweb.

 

In that sort of situation I could see a fetus having to receive Breath in some manner separate from the rest of its spiritweb.

 

Personally, I feel that whenever it gets its Breath, it's really early on cause otherwise pregnancies would probably be more problematic due to the sickly-ness not having a Breath means.

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In a WoB Mister Sanderson talked about Breath as unStealable through Hemalurgy, because it's "too physical". This probably mean that is actually Raw Investiture instead of part of his Spirit-Web

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