Lilamal Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Kaladin Vs. Vin. Both at full power, namely Vin is using the mists and is not going to disappear, Kaladin is a full Knight Radiant and has spoken all the Words, and each of them knows the things the other can do. Edit: OK, no mists for Vin. That's just broken. And no atium. Kaladin needs to have a chance. Edited April 13, 2016 by Lilamal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samaldin Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Vin, because if she uses the mists she comes really close to a shard in regards to power. No single KR, can fight a shardlevel entity and hope to win. Without the mists the fight could go either way, as long as both have stormlight or metals.Whoever runs out first loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Vin with the mists beats pretty much everyone, she can crush buildings with her mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Vin can push Kaladin's shardplate and shardblade with the mists btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Vin can push Kaladin's shardplate and shardblade with the mists btw Or just the trace amounts of iron in that chouta he had last night, causing it to bore a hole through his stomach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uilos Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 As something so invested, I don't think Vin will be able to push on the Plate or Blade. I still have money on Vin, because Vin has more innate skill while Kaladin has to work at learning his craft. She's better. And she's a killer, while he's a soldier. There's a difference in thinking and tactics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Eh, I think it's tough to have the discussion because we don't know the full extent of KR abilities. We don't know what Kaladin will be able to do once he's spoken all the oaths. I suspect that the way they're currently using Stormlight is analogous to people drawing on the Mists - the gaseous form of a Shard's Investiture, provided periodically in a weather phenomenon, "consumed" by users to power their magic. But was that always where Radiants got their Investiture from? There is a lot we're still waiting to learn about magic on Roshar... Also, I think we need some more definition on Vin's side of things, as well. When you say Vin is "using" the mists, is that distinct from when Vin was "absorbing" the mists? During the final battle at Kredik Shaw, she was Ascending, absorbing the mists, which is why she became as powerful as she did. But using the mists isn't necessarily that OP - Wax has drawn upon the mists (most likely in the final gunfight in AoL), but he didn't Ascend. BoM Spoilers: When he had the bands, sure, he came close to Ascending, but that wasn't using the mists, that was just drawing on massive amounts of Investiture. So, if you're asking about Vin when she absorbed the mists, then you're asking how a Shard would fare against a mortal. Pretty one-sided, as a lot of people have been saying. If you're asking about Vin when she can draw on the mists for extra power and doesn't have to worry about running out of metals, then I think that's a much more interesting discussion. Vin has a broader array of powers, including mental and temporal powers, but Kaladin has Invested equipment in the Plate and Blade, which can be a real game-changer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 As something so invested, I don't think Vin will be able to push on the Plate or Blade. I still have money on Vin, because Vin has more innate skill while Kaladin has to work at learning his craft. She's better. And she's a killer, while he's a soldier. There's a difference in thinking and tactics. She was able to push easily on the inquistor's spikes which are not only in the body, but also invested themselves. If a duralumin push could push on a shardblade, then Vin harnessing the mists could push on plate and blade normally. As mentioned, she caved in a building just from the trace metals in the stone. Eh, I think it's tough to have the discussion because we don't know the full extent of KR abilities. We don't know what Kaladin will be able to do once he's spoken all the oaths. I suspect that the way they're currently using Stormlight is analogous to people drawing on the Mists - the gaseous form of a Shard's Investiture, provided periodically in a weather phenomenon, "consumed" by users to power their magic. But was that always where Radiants got their Investiture from? There is a lot we're still waiting to learn about magic on Roshar... Also, I think we need some more definition on Vin's side of things, as well. When you say Vin is "using" the mists, is that distinct from when Vin was "absorbing" the mists? During the final battle at Kredik Shaw, she was Ascending, absorbing the mists, which is why she became as powerful as she did. But using the mists isn't necessarily that OP - Wax has drawn upon the mists (most likely in the final gunfight in AoL), but he didn't Ascend. BoM Spoilers: When he had the bands, sure, he came close to Ascending, but that wasn't using the mists, that was just drawing on massive amounts of Investiture. So, if you're asking about Vin when she absorbed the mists, then you're asking how a Shard would fare against a mortal. Pretty one-sided, as a lot of people have been saying. If you're asking about Vin when she can draw on the mists for extra power and doesn't have to worry about running out of metals, then I think that's a much more interesting discussion. Vin has a broader array of powers, including mental and temporal powers, but Kaladin has Invested equipment in the Plate and Blade, which can be a real game-changer. In Wax's case, the mists were only giving him pewter to withstand the damage his body was enduring during the fight. So, at least it appears to me, the Shard can choose what the recipient gets out of the mists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 As something so invested, I don't think Vin will be able to push on the Plate or Blade. I still have money on Vin, because Vin has more innate skill while Kaladin has to work at learning his craft. She's better. And she's a killer, while he's a soldier. There's a difference in thinking and tactics. When she's using just a tiny bit of the mists she manages to shove off TLRs bracers, which both pierce his skin and are insanely Invested. I doubt she'd have problems with plate or blade if she was using the mists. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Wax had a Pathian earring in at the time. It could have given him A.Pewter, but, since he wasn't aware of it, he didn't consume any pewter to burn. The mists just powered the abilities the earring gave him - they didn't give him new abilities in and of themselves. (I think.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Wax had a Pathian earring in at the time. It could have given him A.Pewter, but, since he wasn't aware of it, he didn't consume any pewter to burn. The mists just powered the abilities the earring gave him - they didn't give him new abilities in and of themselves. (I think.) Ah true, I think you are right. It certainly makes sense. Vin had access to all the powers, so she was able to tap them all with the mists. Wax just had steel, and pewter (from the earring), so he could use it to fuel only those. Though to confirm, his pathian earring was steel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Ah true, I think you are right. It certainly makes sense. Vin had access to all the powers, so she was able to tap them all with the mists. Wax just had steel, and pewter (from the earring), so he could use it to fuel only those. Though to confirm, his pathian earring was steel? It's still unconfirmed what it was as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Perhaps using chromium or nicrosil could wipe out Kaladin's Radiant powers. I don't know if it works like this, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Perhaps using chromium or nicrosil could wipe out Kaladin's Radiant powers. I don't know if it works like this, though. This is entirely my own interpretation, but I feel considering how Nazh's gun was affected by the leecher, it would would drain Kaladin of stormlight preventing his use of his powers, but still having his sprenblade and depending on how radiant shardplate works, that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilamal Posted April 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 OK, so lets rule out the mists for Vin. And atium. We need to give Kaladin a chance. Now, how would it go then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Then I think it jumps back to heavily in Kaladin's favor. That is assuming that upon speaking all his oaths, he holds stormlight better, has radiant shardplate, a changing weapon in his sprenblade that can be summoned to his hand immediately (regardless of being duralumin pushed away), and perfect control over his flight in all directions. Not counting the increase in speed, strength, and healing he gets from stormlight and the potential increase in strength and durability from the shardplate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 OK, so lets rule out the mists for Vin. And atium. We need to give Kaladin a chance. Now, how would it go then? Depends what Vin has, does she get Bendalloy or Chromium? If not it'd be pretty close but I'd probably give it to Kaladin because a Shardblade probably wins out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Depends what Vin has, does she get Bendalloy or Chromium? If not it'd be pretty close but I'd probably give it to Kaladin because a Shardblade probably wins out. Ah good point on Chromium. It would be hard to stay ahead of a instantly changing weapon coming from different directions, but if she could manage it, and touch him, unless the armor shields him, she could wipe out all his stormlight. Then even a fall from a decent height could kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svordish Scientist Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Vin can push Kaladin's shardplate and shardblade with the mists btw The more hevly invested an object is the harder it is to push/pull them so I find it unlikly that vin could push/pull a shardplate or shardblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 The more hevly invested an object is the harder it is to push/pull them so I find it unlikly that vin could push/pull a shardplate or shardblade Without the mists? Absolutely. Using the mists? I would be very surprised if anything other than Nightblood offered resistance. Again, she used a tiny amount of mist power and managed to pull TLRs bands, filled to the brim with feruchemical stores and were also piercing his skin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilamal Posted April 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 I would find it very surprising if Kaladin used Shardplate, because he associates them with dead friends, so I don't think he would be using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightVoid Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 We still don't know how radiant shardplate is different from regular, because it most likely is not a dead spren (doesn't scream in Renarin's mind unlike his blade. I would be interested to see how that effects the battle. Now, what would happen if Kaladin had a Larkin handy? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 I would find it very surprising if Kaladin used Shardplate, because he associates them with dead friends, so I don't think he would be using it. The OP stated that Kaladin would have said all of his oaths. The windrunner in Dalinar's vision had shardplate that could change at a thought. So it is reasonable to believe if Kaladin said all his oaths, he would have radiant shardplate We still don't know how radiant shardplate is different from regular, because it most likely is not a dead spren (doesn't scream in Renarin's mind unlike his blade. I would be interested to see how that effects the battle. Now, what would happen if Kaladin had a Larkin handy? That is an excellent point with the larkin, though as that that is an external creature not included in a windrunner's powers, while chromium would be with a mistborn, I am not sure in this scenario if it could be counted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) There are so many variables in this that it is hard to say... - Does Vin have access to metals she did not know about (Bendalloy, Nicrosil, Chromium etc.)? - How much stormlight does Kaladin get? - What environment are they fighting in? (an urban area with a lot of metal for Vin to push/pull on? An empty plain? A forest? Both start on kayaks moving swiftly down a river?) And so on. One major advantage Kaladin would have is that stormlight heals at a Miles Hundredlives' level. Even if Vin put a coin in Kaladin's eye it would not be that big of a deal. On the other hand, if nicrosil or chromium could potentially burn out all of Kaladin's stormlight instantly then he would be toast. My personal feeling is that Vin would win (haha, it rhymed!) because she is more ruthless. When she commits to a fight she does not hold back at all. Kaladin is more introspective (I mean, in the WoR rewrite he couldn't even kill Szeth who, from Kaladin's perspective, was a ruthless murderer) and those moments of introspection and wishy-washiness would give Vin the opening she needed. Kaladin is still one of my favorite characters (I am trying to convince my wife that if/when we have a son we should name him Kaladin) but I give the edge to Vin in the fight. Edited April 13, 2016 by CaptainRyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asperity Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Haven't there been multiple WoBs about this? Basically, a Kaladin (likely any Windrunner) would win if the fight were out in the open; a Mistborn would win otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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