Stormgate Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Preservation is an infinity, a note held for eternity. Ruin is intelligent decay. Honor is the protection of the weak, perhaps. Cultivation is the progression of things, maybe. Speculative Intents aside, what about Odium? We can sort of tell from the magic systems and occasionally WoB's what the intents actually are. Odium...hatred. Why does he destroy Shards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) Honor is staying true to what you've sworn, I'd say.Odium is hard to describe this way. One reason is that it's hard to define hatred. The other is the duality of the meanings of "Odium".Why does he destroy Shards? There can be multiple reasons. Because he wants to be the most powerful and only. Because he thinks himself superior. Because he hates them. Because he sees it as a way for widespread hatred to reign. Because he hates the world and wants to destroy it and he starts with beings which could oppose him.... Now I would use a phrase, but I don't know how to say it in English. Something along the lines of "Brandon only himself knows". "Brandon knows", perhaps? Edited March 10, 2016 by Oversleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I've speculated elsewhere (http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/52690-unknown-shards-and-opposition-in-the-cosmere/?p=395163), based on Frost's description of Odium as "God's own divine hatred," that Odium is an embodiment of the biblical 2nd Commandment: I am the Lord your God, and you shall have no other gods before me." Taken to an extreme, separated from the other attributes of Adonalsium (a.k.a. 15 other divine attributes that describe the other 15 Intents), it drives him to destroy the other Shards so that he remains as the most powerful being in the Cosmere; the only god left. Some of the hatred against the other Shards may spill over to their followers or the worlds they inhabit. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidWayne Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I've speculated... that Odium is an embodiment of the biblical 2nd Commandment: "I am the Lord your God, and you shall have no other gods before me." I like this supposition, but wouldn't "Jealousy" be a better name for the shard if this is the intended meaning? After all, the old testament quotes God as saying things like, "I am a jealous God..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobar14 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 This is probably not right, but: Odium is hatred or disgust directed towards someone/something as a result of their actions. So maybe Odium just hates it when Shards take action, and are actively involved in their worlds. Maybe that's why the shards talk about their tendency towards inaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobar14 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 You could also define Odium as "Many hating or being disgusted by one". So odium hates single things, so he splinters shards and prevents them from becoming 1 Adonalsium again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan Firetree Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) Speculative Intents aside, what about Odium? We can sort of tell from the magic systems and occasionally WoB's what the intents actually are. Odium...hatred. Why does he destroy Shards? Some dictionaries define odium as more than just 'hatred' but hatred towards someone as a result of an action. Merrian-Webster: the state or fact of being subjected to hatred and contempt as a result of a despicable act or blameworthy circumstance Google define: general or widespread hatred or disgust directed toward someone as a result of their actions. It seems partly counter-intuitive, but could Odium hate the shards for their part in the Shattering? Partly counter-intuitive because Rayse obviously took part in the shattering himself, has gone on to shatter other shards, and it doesn't mesh with Hoid's description of his character. However, it could offer a possible explanation to why he targeted Devotion and then Honor; if Odium hates the shards for the Shattering then he may view the shardholders of Devotion and Honor as being especially hypocritical. edit:appears that tobar14 and I were thinking along the same lines at the same time Edited March 10, 2016 by runyan_ft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Authweight Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) I've speculated elsewhere (http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/52690-unknown-shards-and-opposition-in-the-cosmere/?p=395163), based on Frost's description of Odium as "God's own divine hatred," that Odium is an embodiment of the biblical 2nd Commandment: I am the Lord your God, and you shall have no other gods before me." Taken to an extreme, separated from the other attributes of Adonalsium (a.k.a. 15 other divine attributes that describe the other 15 Intents), it drives him to destroy the other Shards so that he remains as the most powerful being in the Cosmere; the only god left. Some of the hatred against the other Shards may spill over to their followers or the worlds they inhabit. Adding to this (although I'm not personally sold yet): this idea plays interestingly with the Purelaker belief that there are two gods, a good god and his jealous brother. They always pray out loud to the jealous brother to avoid upsetting him. Edited March 10, 2016 by Authweight 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBridgeFour Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 If the religion of the Purelakers is formed out of some knowledge of Odium and Honor, maybe Odium hates that some of the other Shards are worshipped. Its tenuous but could be a clue to his motivation. This would fit with Pagerunner's view of divine hatred. Also Odium splintered Devotion and Dominion but didn't stick around to destroy the pesky humans on the Sel. So it seems as if his grudge is specifically against the holders of the Shards, not against everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) I like this supposition, but wouldn't "Jealousy" be a better name for the shard if this is the intended meaning? After all, the old testament quotes God as saying things like, "I am a jealous God..." Yeah, that's exactly what I'm proposing. The names don't necessarily have to be the plainest description of the attribute, though - if you recall, before we were given Devotion's name, we were told Aona's Shard was a synonym of "Love." These names might be chosen because they don't carry connotations and weight, letting the Shards' actions speak for themselves. (And also are much cooler names.) Adding to this (although I'm not personally sold yet): this idea plays interestingly with the Purelaker belief that there are two gods, a good god and his jealous brother. They always pray out loud to the jealous brother to avoid upsetting him. Wow, great point; I hadn't even considered that, but it does fit perfectly with the way I propose to view Odium. Secret promises with Honor, but if they pay lip service to Odium, he won't come after them. Thanks for pointing that out. Edited March 11, 2016 by Pagerunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnikoliNightmareVision Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Maybe Adonalsium hated himself because of something,and then Rayse picked up that hate so now he hates all other shards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Carmony Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Odium is Sauron he wants to rule them all and in the darkness bind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoAjah Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) Some dictionaries define odium as more than just 'hatred' but hatred towards someone as a result of an action. It seems partly counter-intuitive, but could Odium hate the shards for their part in the Shattering? Partly counter-intuitive because Rayse obviously took part in the shattering himself, has gone on to shatter other shards, and it doesn't mesh with Hoid's description of his character. However, it could offer a possible explanation to why he targeted Devotion and then Honor; if Odium hates the shards for the Shattering then he may view the shardholders of Devotion and Honor as being especially hypocritical. edit:appears that tobar14 and I were thinking along the same lines at the same time Kind of like divine Vengeance? Raguel and all that?It (the Intent) may even have been a deliberate latent form of revenge that Adonalsium had ready as a trap for anyone who managed to splinter it? Edited March 15, 2016 by IndigoAjah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondesu Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Copied from another thread: Odium's mandate is hatred, right? What if he visits worlds that have two shards because he can turn them against each other using that hatred? He might have been behind the intense hatred between Shu-Korathi and Shu-Derethi in that case, and have tried to use the same tactic on Roshar, but failed to splinter them both because of Honor and Cultivations respect and relationship (Honor sacrificing himself to protect Cultivation perhaps)? I thought it'd be relevant here too. jW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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