Why is Syl different?

[Mason Wheeler]

One of the big dramatic reveals in the first book was three words by Syl: "I am honorspren."  Up until this point, she had appeared to be just a somewhat weird windspren that Kaladin had attracted at some point who kept hanging around him.

 

While this made a heck of a dramatic reveal, it seems a bit inconsistent, for two reasons.  First, no one looked at Pattern and said, "oh, that's a fractalspren... oh, no, wait!  It's actually a Cryptic!  DUN DUN DUN!"  Same for the spren bonded to Jasnah and Lift.  They're all portrayed as new and unfamiliar species/classes of spren.  Syl alone appears to be something known and familiar.

 

Second, if we're going to have only one of the bond-spren appear to be something known and familiar that they actually are not, you would think the least likely candidate for such an inherently deceptive premise would be the one who has something against lies, deceptions, and Cryptics.

 

Do we have any official explanations for why Syl, alone, appeared to be a different type of spren at first?

[Oversleep]

Yeah, I always wondered why honorspren are so different. Not only the issue with windspren connection, but also...

Cryptics fit Lightweavers (as they're liespren). But what honor has to do with running on wind?

There was a WoB out there that Wyndle would consider himself cultivationspren, so I guess that Windrunner's spren do have another name. Fitting name. Leadershipspren... Protectionspren, for Almighty's sake! It was protecting people what Syl was attracted to, not being honorable (it can be argued that protecting is honorable, but there are tons of honorable behaviours and protecting isn't very high on that list). Liespren were attracted to lies, simple.

Anyway, I don't know what to make of the Radiants. Lightweavers fit some kind of the pattern (pun not intended):

• name: Lightweavers, they do weave light to create illusions
• their powers are about illusions and transforming
• their Oaths have to do with truth
• their spren is liespren
• attributes: Creativity and Honesty

It's all connected. But Windrunners do not have such strong connection:

• name: Windrunners, they do run on winds
• their powers are about gravity and pressure
• their Oaths have to do with protecting (and possibly leading)
• their spren is honorspren
• attributes: Protecting and Leading

Now, their Oaths and attributes are connected and their name and powers are also connected. But there is no link between these pairs. Spren doesn't fit anything. What protecting has to do with flying?
It's odd.

I can't discuss other Orders at this point, because we simply know too little.

[ecohansen]

On a similar note, what is Syl's relation to bindspren?

 

WOK p.796 Kaladin leaned close, squinting.  He could faintly make out tiny spren, dark blue and shaped like little splashes of ink, clustering around the place where the rock met the wall.  "Bindspren," Syl said, walking up beside his head.

 

Obviously a very different kind of spren than Syl. And yet, Syl defines her basic function as binding:  "I bind things.  I am honorspren."

 

And, maybe related, there always seemed to be something odd about how Pattern seemed to have a special disdain for creationspren, despite creation being a big part of what he and Shallan do.

 

Wild speculation time: what if the 'higher' spren capable of making a nahel bond arise from one type of primitive spren taking on the intent of another?  What if an Honorspren is a windspren that decides it wants to act like a bindspren, and a Cryptic is a liespren that decides it wants to act like a creationspren?  That could be tied to each Order having access to two surges: one alligned with what the spren originally was, and one alligned with what it rose up to become?

 

[/wild speculation]

[Vander]

I like this wild speculation of yours.

[DSC01 he/him]

Maybe all of the... radiantspren (hey, why not?) are different. Wyndle, for example, doesn't seem to have forgotten anything from his existence in the Cognitive Realm, even though all of the other radiantspren seem pretty stupid before their bond progresses. Syl could be only as special as any other Windrunner's spren, who are, in turn, only as special as all varieties of radiantspren are.

In other words, Windrunners' spren are special because they are similar to a known form of spren, Edgedancers' spren are special because they don't forget, and we don't have enough information yet to distinguish what is special about the others.

[Oversleep]

On a similar note, what is Syl's relation to bindspren?

Obviously a very different kind of spren than Syl. And yet, Syl defines her basic function as binding:  "I bind things.  I am honorspren."

I remember something about Navani describing gravityspren. Bindspren are drawn to Full Lashing because...well, it binds things, so I suppose gravityspren may be attracted to Basic and Reverse Lashings.

[Yata he/him]

Syl is the only Spren we saw in the early stage of his bonding and after her early stage she seems very little a windspren (without say that HonorSpren can change deeply thier form)

 

Pattern just returns to the Psysical but he was bonded with Shallan from years ago.

 

And Jasnah end Lift's Spren are already far in the Bond.... Maybe also them at the begins was similar to other lesser spren (For example Cryptic with CreationSpren and Wylde with LifeSpren)... We didn't see enough to find a pattern (yeah bad jike I know XD)

Edited February 28, 2016 by Yata

[heridfel]

Wild speculation time: what if the 'higher' spren capable of making a nahel bond arise from one type of primitive spren taking on the intent of another?  What if an Honorspren is a windspren that decides it wants to act like a bindspren, and a Cryptic is a liespren that decides it wants to act like a creationspren?  That could be tied to each Order having access to two surges: one alligned with what the spren originally was, and one alligned with what it rose up to become?

 

[/wild speculation]

 

I mostly agree with your speculation, but I think we have had a hint in the beginning of WoR, when Jasnah and Shallan are discussing spren.

 

Shallan: "...Really, you can divide spren into two general groups. Those that respond to emotions and those that respond to forces like fire or wind pressure."

Jasnah: "...I suspect, personally, that these groupings of spren - emotion spren versus nature spren - are where the ideas of mankind's primeval 'gods' came from."

 

Windspren are clearly nature spren by this categorization, while honorspren are emotion spren. We've seen that when the Radiants aren't following the requirements of the Nahel bond, their spren regress. Syl becomes more like a windspren, and Pattern acts in a way that's described as imbecilic.

 

I think that the spren which can form Nahel bonds are emotion spren which "evolved" from a particular nature spren. That evolution into emotion spren gives them the ability to bond with those of an appropriate emotional state, and their ancestry gives them power over the appropriate surges. Pattern's lack of acknowledgement of a "cousin" could be because his spren are high-class and don't like to consider their lower-class relations.

 

Now here's my wild speculation: the "base" spren for the Dustbringers is rotspren. Perhaps the "evolved" form is freedomspren?

[CrazyRioter she/her]

regarding Wyndle, he said that his people took "precautions" before he bonded with Lift to prevent him losing his memory, and it apparently did not work perfectly.

[CabbageHead he/him]

Cryptics fit Lightweavers (as they're liespren). But what honor has to do with running on wind?

 

Well, I am going to take a shot in the dark and guess... The Stormfather took up his role as the storm bringer after Tanavast died.

 

 

i AM HIS...SPREN, AS YOU MIGHT SAY. NOT HIS SOUL. I AM THE MEMORY MEN CREATE FOR HIM, NOW THAT HE IS GONE. THE PERSONIFICATION OF STORMS AND THE DIVINE. I AM NO GOD. I AM BUT A SHADOW OF ONE.

 

Storms do tie in nicely with windrunning.

 

Edit: Just throwing that in as a possible link from Honour to the wind, however I would say he is related to all the spren involved in Nahel bonds. The Stormbringer is just one aspect of his personality. I like this snipped I had forgotten about and just found on the coppermind when looking for the quote above:

 

“He had another name, allowed to pass only the lips of ardents. Elithanathile. He Who Transforms. ”—Shallan's thoughts

 

All of the Radiants have some form of transformative ability, and I think that makes sense for followers of a Shard called Honour. Some Shards like Cultivation, Endowment, etc. seem to have a very specific and static Intent. Doing what is honourable is a very changeable thing, reacting to circumstances, perhaps doing the exact opposite things in almost but not quite similar scenarios. The ability to react in different ways is probably the most important defining feature of someone bent on holding to a rigid set of self-imposed rules that may sometimes conflict with each other.

Edited March 4, 2016 by CabbageHead