speculation Minks

[paulinor_of_the_fields]

Part 1:

 

So I've been on my nth reread of Words of Radiance recently, and I noticed an odd bit of detail in Shallan's Middlefest flashback:

 

 

She was surprised to see a mink slinking in the shadows; she’d expected all those in the area to have been trapped by now.

- WoR p.909, iBooks edition

 

This tails a bit of purely scene-setting description, and could have been inserted as just another bit of color, as it would be if Shallan noted songlings in the trees or something. Instead it's pulled out as incongruous. The law of conservation of detail screams at me it wouldn't be there if not for a reason.

 

Shallan has just left Hoid and her father at the dueling grounds, where Hoid took special notice of her, and she's about to encounter him again, just after she gives Wikim her math problems. Seeing it so cleanly set-up this way, at first I thought to myself, "Oh, Hoid is tailing her, obvs." And then I stopped, because if that was right, then it's a type of magic (either shape-shifting or warging) that AFAIK is totally new to the cosmere.

 

I don't want to go that far on just a single line, but if not Hoid (and I can't shake the feeling that he would be a mink [or a sable] if he could), I believe there's something else going on there, and I'd like to know what.

 

Any other reason for this animal to be there other than mundane coincidence?

 

Also, are there perhaps other mentions of small animals in incongruous places in other cosmere books?

 

Part 2:

 

In getting my thoughts together to post the above, I began to wonder about minks in general. They're an odd sort of thing to see outside of Shinovar: squishy, unarmored, earth mammals not raised by humans. On earth they burrow in riverbanks as far as I can tell, but I guess on Roshar they must just find cracks in the stone to use as homes and Highstorm shelters. Why are these present but not, say, weasels or meerkats or prairie dogs?

 

Oddly, a text search of my books tells me that of six occurrences in Words of Radiance and one in The Way of Kings, only once is the word "mink" mentioned outside of Shallan's viewpoint, and never when it's concerning an actual animal present in the scene. I feel like mostly that's only natural, since Shallan is the one with the natural history Calling, but a part of me wants to believe ... I don't know what. That Shallan is the Lost Queen of the Minks?

 

Oh well. Make of it what you will!

===============================================================================
  Book   Page (iBooks)   Chapter                       Viewpoint   Actual nml?

  Text                                                                         
===============================================================================
  WoK    149             3. City of Bells              Shallan     Yes         
  In a street inland of the docks, a prowling mink skulked in the shadows,     
  watching for morsels that might be dropped.                                  

  WoR    426             17. A Pattern                 Shallan     No          
  “A man hunting game will return with a mink if there are no telm to be       
  found,” she said.                                                            

  WoR    461             19. Safe Things               Shallan     No          
  No mink pelts, as his grandfathers might have worn, but otherwise very, very 
  traditional.                                                                 

  WoR    472             20. The Coldness of Clarity   Shallan     No          
  A little like the mink wandering into the whitespine’s den and asking when   
  dinner is . . . she thought.                                                 

  WoR    909             45. Middlefest                Shallan     Yes         
  She was surprised to see a mink slinking in the shadows; she’d expected all  
  those in the area to have been trapped by now.                               

  WoR    1093            54. Veil's Lesson             Shallan     Yes         
  Mraize passed his blowgun to the side. The short, masked girl was there,     
  holding the cremling that Mraize had speared along with a dead mink, a       
  blowgun dart in its neck. No, its leg twitched.                              

  WoR    1861            89. The Four                  Adolin      No          
  A fanciful picture, with animals from mythology. He recognized a few from    
  children’s stories, like the enormous, minklike creature with the mane of    
  hair that burst out around and behind its head.                              
===============================================================================

Side note: getting something resembling a table here was a serious struggle. Anyone have a better way?

[maxal]

As a country girl interested in natural biology she must have seen minks quite often? Furry animals seem to be an oddity which is likely why Adolin manages to think of a lion as a giant mink.

[KnightGradient]

Well, after researching minks, I'm now wondering how such an animal could have evolved naturally on Roshar. Considering that it's a mammal, the only place it could've come about naturally is Shinovar. I doubt that's the only conclusion. Nice catch.

[Brgst13]

I suspect that you are right, Hoid is tailing her, and using lightweaving to appear as a mink. Also kinks are at least partly a water mammal, which would be more likely than a land mammal since water would offer some protection from highstorms.

[natc]

Well, after researching minks, I'm now wondering how such an animal could have evolved naturally on Roshar. Considering that it's a mammal, the only place it could've come about naturally is Shinovar. I doubt that's the only conclusion. Nice catch.

Possibly smuggled itself out of Shinovar accidentally and then invaded everywhere?

[kaellok]

Keep in mind that they also refer to all birds as chickens.  So there may actually be weasels, ferrets, etc., but the people don't know enough to differentiate them.  The quote from Adolin's POV seems to support this, with a lion being described as mink-link.

 

It's interesting to see how widespread mink or mink-likes were, though, for there to be some kind of tradition of wearing their pelts, and surprise at them not all having been hunted.  In an environment that would be very unfriendly to their existence.

[paulinor_of_the_fields]

Brgst13, I admit I think it's possible for Hoid to make a lightweaving that appears like that, but I wonder why make an illusion that says, "My body is invisible but my feet look like a mink," when you could say "My everything is invisible."

Also I realized after posting last night that shapeshifting wouldn't be COMPLETELY new cosmere magic, because kandra can do it, but I didn't think that was something Hoid could mimic, since it's more investiture-fueled biology and not a wielding of investiture.

I've begun to think warging is more of a possibility, especially if you take his quip to Dalinar about making Chasmfiends sing and dance as more than just a zany idea.

natc, re: "smuggled itself out of Shinovar" - theory confirmed: mink are the invasive exotic species of Roshar.

kaellok, good point! Although birds are too rare to need any kind of differentiating names, whereas mink like mammals, at least in lush places like Jah Keved, are less so. I think partly the mink must be adapted to living alongside human civilization and taking advantage of its affordances, like raccoons or foxes in cities on earth, because of the way they show up in Kharbranth

[Confused]

Shallan just thinks they're minks. They're really mice monitoring the computer that is Roshar before Odium's Everstorm "rayses" the planet to make room for a new interstellar highway.

Good catch! Have another upvote!

[Corax]

I hadn’t thought of them in a supernatural angle, but it's interesting they’re mentioned like you say. I'm gonna have to go back and reread it, paying them special attention (oh noes!)

Mink have been introduced into various locations in the real world and can be invasive. They're pretty hardy and likely to be brought along with humans for their pelts. I'm also reminded of the mongooses that are all over Hawaii. They're not native, but rather a very invasive species that was introduced in a vain attempt to control the (also invasive) rats that were drawn to the sugar cane crops. The mongooses ended up preferring the eggs of the native birds instead.

My point was... I sort of wondered if the minks of Kharbranth are there with a similar history.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Corax

[Pathfinder]

Also going along side the earlier mentioned point of all birds are chickens, maybe some of the "minks" she sees are actually rats. Those things can get anywhere and everywhere

[DSC01]

Check out this picture:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mink#/media/File:Mink_with_crayfish_at_Wascana_Lake_in_Regina_Saskatchewan.jpg

 

I'd say that minks, while undoubtedly not native to Roshar, wouldn't have trouble finding plenty of food.

[ecohansen]

Nope, Pathfinder, rats (and pigs) are the OTHER common mammal(s) outside Shinovar, and have the same negative conotations they have here.

 

WOK  p.66: A few skyeels undulated through the air, searching for fish and rats.

WOK p. 71: Why did a rat population thrive in one area, but fail in another?

WOK p. 168: That rat! he sends a boy into my shop trying to steal my customer? Outrageous!

WOK p. 47: ...the way a rat can empty an entire wineskin by chewing out the corner

 

When Kaladin is down in the chasms, he find's a bit of sow-milk cheese on one of the dead bodies, but word search isn't pulling up the page.

[Pathfinder]

Nope, Pathfinder, rats (and pigs) are the OTHER common mammal(s) outside Shinovar, and have the same negative conotations they have here.

 

WOK  p.66: A few skyeels undulated through the air, searching for fish and rats.

WOK p. 71: Why did a rat population thrive in one area, but fail in another?

WOK p. 168: That rat! he sends a boy into my shop trying to steal my customer? Outrageous!

WOK p. 47: ...the way a rat can empty an entire wineskin by chewing out the corner

 

When Kaladin is down in the chasms, he find's a bit of sow-milk cheese on one of the dead bodies, but word search isn't pulling up the page.

Ah excellent point. I did not catch that. Thanks!

[Mace]

I guess I may appear the noob here. 

 

But has Brandon mentioned the use of magic on a world that's not the origin of said magic?

 

Because my first guess would be an awakened mink commanded to follow Shallan? Maybe with a command to come back and get Hoid if certain circumstances are met?

 

"follow Shallan and come back and lead me to her if she is alone and not traveling" (sorry that is blatantly a terrible command that wouldn't work but you get my drift)

 

IIRC he strolls up to her when she is sitting under a tree drawing?

 

Seems this would have been mentioned already if a WoB doesn't categorically stated this can't happen on Roshar.

[Pathfinder]

I guess I may appear the noob here. 

 

But has Brandon mentioned the use of magic on a world that's not the origin of said magic?

 

Because my first guess would be an awakened mink commanded to follow Shallan? Maybe with a command to come back and get Hoid if certain circumstances are met?

 

"follow Shallan and come back and lead me to her if she is alone and not traveling" (sorry that is blatantly a terrible command that wouldn't work but you get my drift)

 

IIRC he strolls up to her when she is sitting under a tree drawing?

 

Seems this would have been mentioned already if a WoB doesn't categorically stated this can't happen on Roshar.

How much do you know about our friend called Hoid and Vasher?

Edited March 1, 2016 by Pathfinder

[Mace]

How much do you know about our friend called Hoid and Vasher?

I know both are worldhoppers, I am not positive which magics they have available to them. I know Vasher has access to breath. but thats about as far as my knowledge goes to do with their magic access.

 

I guess I just assumed that they would gain the magic of each new world they visited (this is what I would do if it were possible).

 

where am i going wrong? Maybe  I should read up a bit more on them.

[Pathfinder]

I know both are worldhoppers, I am not positive which magics they have available to them. I know Vasher has access to breath. but thats about as far as my knowledge goes to do with their magic access.

 

I guess I just assumed that they would gain the magic of each new world they visited (this is what I would do if it were possible).

 

where am i going wrong? Maybe  I should read up a bit more on them.

If you pay close attention to the scene where Wit first speaks with Shallan when she is younger, he is soothing her. Vasher is feeding his need for breaths with stormlight. So it is possible to have a magic system from outside the planet, and still use it on a planet other than its origin. 

[Bugsy]

I know both are worldhoppers, I am not positive which magics they have available to them. I know Vasher has access to breath. but thats about as far as my knowledge goes to do with their magic access.

I guess I just assumed that they would gain the magic of each new world they visited (this is what I would do if it were possible).

where am i going wrong? Maybe I should read up a bit more on them.

We know that Wit has access to Soothing, as stated by Pathfinder. We also know he can lightweave (or something similar) due to his storytelling abilities, and we know he has reached at least the 2nd heightening (He remarks about his "perfect pitch" while tuning an instrument). I'm not sure what powers Vasher has

Secret History spoiler:

We know Hoid took Lesarium from the Well, so it's logical to assume this is how he obtained his soothing ability

Sorry for slightly derailing the thread

Edited March 2, 2016 by Bugsy6912