Theory on how odium is more powerful than other shards

[Straw he/him]

I actually have several different theory's on why odium is stronger than other shards.

A. Odium takes up tiny splinters of other shards.

B. Odium's holder has a personality the complements the shards intent.

C. Odium's power is increased when people feel hate.

D. Odium got power from a outside source/already had investure.

E. Odium has more knowledge about shardic power.

Reasons:

A. Odium may take up small parts of other shards i.e. part of dominion that will increase his power but not change his intent to something "good" for example a small part of dominion would increase his power but not change his intent.

B. A shards power might be increased if the shardholder's personality matched the shards intent. In the letter it said that Rayse was already hateful.

C. Most people will feel hate at some point in their lives thus increasing Odium's power. This may also be why shardplanets have religious systems focused around that shard's intent i.e. Vorin religion focuses on honor/honor, the shin treat farmers like lords/cultivation, elantrians have many holy places/devotion, fjorden focuses on besting others/dominion, halladren focuses on endowing others/endowment, pathians focus on meditation/harmony this spreading of the shards intent may increase their power.

D. Odium gained power from some unknown source/other shard or already had power from before the shattering.

E. Odium didn't spend time creating species, terraforming planets, helping society because of this he had a lot more time to discover new abilities/find more power.

Please give feedback/say what one you think is correct.

[vineyarddawg]

Item A is definitely worth considering, IMO.  If you're splintering a shard, it's natural to assume you might take a splinter to use for your own means.  We know it's possible for a mortal to hold more than one full shard, so why not one full shard and several splinters of others?

 

Item B seems, to me, like a short-term thing.  (Short-term in a cosmerelogical time frame, anyway.  Like a few hundred years.) After a long period of time, the shard bends its holder to its intent, so that seems like it would only have been of a real benefit to Rayse in the early days after the shattering... long before any of the novels we've seen so far.

 

Item C is coming at the problem from the wrong angle. Investiture flows from the shard to the people, not the other way around. It's true that the religions built around the shards on their various world tend to compliment the shard's intent, but that's coming from the shard to the people, not from the people strengthening the shard.

 

I'm not sure what to think about Items D or E. We don't have any point of reference for whether there was another non-Adonalsium source for investiture, so speculating on it is more like a thought experiment, but ultimately not yet provable. Item E really depends on item D to be correct, I think, so it's more of a corollary of that.

[Straw he/him]

In item E I mention that Odium never took the time to develop planets like the other shards did. This would have given him a big head start on the other shards in terms of figuring out what shards can do with their powers. I personally thought that A was the least likely because we have a WOB saying that odium didn't pick up other shards A was relying on the fact that that may not extend to splinters of shards.

[Kassil]

I'd be inclined towards E; Mistborn makes it pretty clear that Investing power into a world diminishes what the Shard has available, since Preservation was just ever so slightly weaker than Ruin after adding an extra dose of the Shard's power to make humans sapient. If Odium hasn't really invested himself anywhere, he'd have more raw power available. On the other hand, Voidspren and the Unmade apparently are Invested with Odium's power, so he hasn't ignored that part of Shardic nature. Maybe D, after a fashion, might be involved - we know Minor Shardworlds have Shardpools - sources of Investiture that predate the Shattering. Maybe Odium's gone and slurped up some of those?

[Straw he/him]

Were does it say that shardpools predate the shattering? I was thinking more along the lines of him finding raw power left over from the shattering/other important event.

[Kassil]

Were does it say that shardpools predate the shattering? I was thinking more along the lines of him finding raw power left over from the shattering/other important event.

 

Hm. *digs around* I may be mistaken, actually. I do know that Investiture - which the Shardpools are the liquid form of - will form whether or not there's a Shard present, if there's Investiture, and that the Spark of Life is a little bit of Investiture, and magic is the manipulation of Investiture (which http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=977#51 says existed before the Shattering). I don't know that the pools predate the Shattering for sure, though.

 

Your line of thought seems more in tune with what we definitely know; there's leftover power that isn't in a Shard, and Odium may have slurped that up to augment himself without changing his Intent.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Kassil

[Nashan’Elin he/him]

Well, there's this http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1074

So it seems like E is closest

[Yata he/him]

Shardpool is some kind of "Shard's Investiture leaked" into the Physical Realm.

It's like if the point where this leak concentrate itself. If I am not mystaken in a book, is described in the same way as "brine in the cycle of water"

[Straw he/him]

One thing I have been wondering is how much Odium's intent controls him. Some shards such as Honor, preservation, and cultivation seem too be able too make long term, complex plans some of which go against their nature.But other shards like ruin seem too be dominated by their intent and cannot go against his intent I.e. not destroy something.Is this because:

A. "Good" shards can go against their intent.

B. A person with more willpower can resist their shards intent.

C. The closer the shardholder's personality matches their intent the easier to go against the intent is.

Please give feedback.

Note: Should I rename this thread to "all about odium" please tell me yes or no and why I should/shouldn't.

Edited February 22, 2016 by ThatTinyStrawMan

[CancerPuppy]

I'm inclined to agree with the idea of Odium's raw power being more than that of any shard. I think at the heart of this idea is the simple fact that it's generally easier to break and destroy than it is to create and maintain. It has to be more difficult at this level since we're dealing with cosmic powers, and Odium has had to create things like Voidspren and the Unmade to further his cause, but in the end I believe it's just harder to maintain what you've created when something just as powerful wants to show up and destroy it. Like if a kid painstakingly builds a huge elaborate sand castle, using buckets and shovels and water to maintain its structure, then another kid shows up with nothing but a bare foot and a desire to see it crumble and kicks it down. 

 

I suppose this doesn't address the subject of his raw power in comparison to others, though. Maybe he just doesn't require restraint?

Edited February 22, 2016 by CancerPuppy

[Straw he/him]

Are you saying that Odium is smarter then the other shards?

[Ari he/him]

Are you saying that Odium is smarter then the other shards?

 

I'd say it's more like he's a rusher in a strategy game. He's been very careful with his available resources and used them in the most agressive way possible to facilitate Splintering as many shards as possible.

[CancerPuppy]

Exactly. Since all your resources go toward destruction, the ways in which you can bring something down vastly outweighs the probabilities of them finding ways to maintain it in the face of that.

Not impossible, but Damnation it can be hard.

Edited February 24, 2016 by CancerPuppy