Oversleep Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) Basically, all Feruchemy is "I am less something now for 10 minutes to be able to be more something later for 10 minutes". Something - heavy, healthy, strong, fast, warm, etc, etc.But copper doesn't work that way. If it would, it would store ability to remember things. "For ten minutes I won't be able to remember almost anything, but when I tap it I would be able to engrave anything in my memory". It could still be used as it is - to remember tons of information.Another thing is that all other metals store quantities of something - but copper stores specific memories. That's why we run into wall when trying to figure out copper Compounding. Normally we know what overtapping does - you cut down the time of tapping to increase the rate of tapped attribute (and some loss of power for overtapping). But with copper there is no gain from overtapping. There is no need to build up copper reserves by storing. You just store and tap whatever you want, no drawbacks.Your thoughts? Edited February 21, 2016 by Oversleep 4
DeadFencer Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 Um... shoot that's a really good thought. Maybe all the other feruchemy powers do store the specific stuff, it just doesn't really matter? Like, pewter stores strength you had at that specific time, but people don't notice or care. And maybe bendalloy stores the specific calories and nutrition you had in you at the time, like it would give you the nutrition from cake if you stored after eating cake, and the nutrition from lettuce if you stored with lettuce in you. I don't know.
IndigoAjah he/him Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 I don't think copper is alone in that. All feruchemy is, is taking one thing that belongs to you and storing it elsewhere and letting you access it later. Both approaches fit this pattern
Gagylpus he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 I totally agree that copper feruchemy doesn't seem to work the same way as other feruchemical abilities - and I think there might be some vague WoBs about it, but I cannot find them. Storytelling-wise, I'm guessing it is this way because it is "more cool" to be able to store specific memories than just general memory capability. But I have no idea as to the realmatics explanation of it.
IndigoAjah he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Nicrosil probably allows you to store specific investiture. Tin lets you pick which senses you store. We don't really know how storing identity works. The main difference between these types of attributes, and memory too, is that they are much more complex than most of the others. Also, there would be little usefulness in storing these generically, it's possible that because of this Ferruchemists learnt to tap them and store them more specifically in order to get the use out of them and that this would be possible for the other metals and store specific types of strength, speed, etc
Voidus Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 I believe there was a WoB that you would be able to store strength from one specific part of your body, although it might have been asked and RAFOd, can't quite remember.What really sets it apart is that the attribute you store is stored and tapped permanently, you don't store your memory of it for five minutes in order to remember it later for five minutes, you store the entire memory for five minutes. However this too is not I believe unique to copper, feruchemical bendalloy likely does something pretty similar as does cadmium in all likelihood.Additionally you could store a memory at varying strengths if you wanted to, it's just not something that many Archivists would want to do. (My question from Brandons 17th Shard AMA) which still I believe answers what would happen if you compounded the memory, that you would get back a stronger (Harder to forget) memory.
Jondesu he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Additionally you could store a memory at varying strengths if you wanted to, it's just not something that many Archivists would want to do. (My question from Brandons 17th Shard AMA) which still I believe answers what would happen if you compounded the memory, that you would get back a stronger (Harder to forget) memory. So perfect recall once you do that enough. I agree, and I assume that's what the Lord Ruler did, unless we've heard otherwise. jW
natc Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Logically speaking wouldn't stuff like breath or nutritional feruchemy function as permanent removal as well? I mean, they're physical, countable things, unlike more abstract storable concepts like strength, speed, age, etc. Memories are a countable thing aa well.
Yata he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 To me we saw Copper Feruchemy in the wrong way. A "memory" isn't some countable thing but is instead just a subset of the whole Feruchmist's experience. When you use F-Copper, you store some "minutes of experiece" (as a memories) and then you may tap the same "minutes of experience" to yourself. Of course my explaination has some problem, for example "why does the copperminds degrade while the other metalminds doesn't ?". The F-Copper is a Cognitive Abilities therefore problably there are some kind of Realmatic Problem here.
Voidus Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Logically speaking wouldn't stuff like breath or nutritional feruchemy function as permanent removal as well? I mean, they're physical, countable things, unlike more abstract storable concepts like strength, speed, age, etc. Memories are a countable thing aa well. I did mention those before Well age is countable too just not quite in the same way. To me we saw Copper Feruchemy in the wrong way. A "memory" isn't some countable thing but is instead just a subset of the whole Feruchmist's experience. When you use F-Copper, you store some "minutes of experiece" (as a memories) and then you may tap the same "minutes of experience" to yourself. Of course my explaination has some problem, for example "why does the copperminds degrade while the other metalminds doesn't ?". The F-Copper is a Cognitive Abilities therefore problably there are some kind of Realmatic Problem here. Copperminds don't degrade though? 1
natc Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Well with the cosmere age appears to be just this thing in your spiritual aspect, like strength and such, but it's a value counting up. And you're storing the negative. Atium is weird.
EdroGrimshell Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Maybe the Copper/Atium Alloy would store the ability to remember things rather than specific memories... now there's an interesting thought.
Kaymyth she/her Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 I did mention those before Well age is countable too just not quite in the same way. Copperminds don't degrade though? They do, but it's not a time function - it's an access function. The more times you access the memory and put it back, the more it degrades. Perhaps a diminishing return on those "minutes of experience" being redone over and over?
Voidus Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 They do, but it's not a time function - it's an access function. The more times you access the memory and put it back, the more it degrades. Perhaps a diminishing return on those "minutes of experience" being redone over and over? memories degrade but while in the coppermind they don't, that's why people use copperminds in the first place.
Pathfinder Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 I believe it has been proven biologically in the real world the more you recall a particular memory, the hazier it becomes. So this would be a natural extension of that.
Kaymyth she/her Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 memories degrade but while in the coppermind they don't, that's why people use copperminds in the first place. They don't degrade while they are in the coppermind, no. They DO degrade when someone takes the memory out and uses it, then puts it back.
Gagylpus he/him Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 As Voidus says, the weirdest thing about f.copper is that memories get stashed in copperminds permanently until withdrawn, while (for example) your strength is only diminished while storing in f.pewter. I disagree that storing nutrition and breath are (perfect) counterexamples to copper being unique in this. In my view nutrition and breath are more like your body's homeostatic capabilities in maintaining sufficient nourishment and oxygen levels. It doesn't just store nutrition from your body, because (at least, what I understood from the Ars Arcana) you need to eat while storing for it to take effect; you can't just store some nutrition and eat an extra meal afterwards to make up for it. Granted it does seem that there is some permanent effect to storing nutrition and breath, so my argument here is a bit shaky. But it still feels like copper works differently.
Oversleep Posted February 22, 2016 Author Posted February 22, 2016 I see I need to finish my Feruchemy theory I took on some basic mechanisms of Feruchemy there, since there are some misunderstandings. Unfortunately, I have no way to acquire BoM, so some metals will be left out, but I think I can provide some insight into Feruchemy... I may have started that topic just to watch people argue about different Feruchemical attributes.
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