Sazed and the southern continent (bom spoilers)

[king of nowhere]

Before kelsier arrived, the southern scadrians were going to die. In fact, apparently kelsier arrived just in time to save the last handful of survivors. That happened several years after the final ascension. So I wonder, how the heck were they in that situation? Why sazed didn't give them a new land in a temperate area? He must have known they couldn't survive there. he certainly had the power to do soemthing about it. even if he forgot when he remmade scadrial, because he was somewhat busy, nothing would have stopped him from realizing the predicament of the southerners and adding a new continent a few months later. Also realize that at the time sazed hadn't yet undergone the personality warping cuased by the shards intent, so he still was fully himself. and he wouldn't have abandoned the southerners.

So, any idea of what happened there?

Unless saze wanted kelsier to go there and take care of the south, but it seems far-fetched as an option

Edited February 9, 2016 by king of nowhere

[Observer]

With the kind of foresight Harmony has, it's not that far-fetched to say that he was able to tell that Kelsier had the Southerners' situation well in hand.

[+hwiles]

The way I've been reconciling this to myself so far has been to assume that during his initial ascension Sazed, perhaps out of ignorance of their existence, overlooked the southerners and once he became aware of them and their plight he determined that adapting their environment in any meaningful way would necessarily cause some sort of climatic disruption to the paradise he built in the Basin.

 

But no matter how you slice it, it does seem kinda crappy that he didn't at least change their bodies to deal with the cold...

 

I'm guessing (hoping) this strangeness will receive some sort of explanation in future books, as it seems like it goes against Sazed's usual character.

[Sarge he/him]

If i remember correctly Aliik said that the sovereign's priest were from a southern "tribe" that no longer existed. (not sure if he called them tribes or not..)

 

I just assumed that Kelsier went to a group that was almost wiped out and showed them how to do the heater thing and out of gratitude they became his followers and shared the knowledge with the other tribes that still survived.

 

So only that initial tribe was in such a desperate state and the rest of the southerners were suffering to a lesser extent.

[The Ninja Yodeler he/him]

Before kelsier arrived, the southern scadrians were going to die. In fact, apparently kelsier arrived just in time to save the last handful of survivors. That happened several years after the final ascension. So I wonder, how the heck were they in that situation? Why sazed didn't give them a new land in a temperate area? He must have known they couldn't survive there. he certainly had the power to do soemthing about it. even if he forgot when he remmade scadrial, because he was somewhat busy, nothing would have stopped him from realizing the predicament of the southerners and adding a new continent a few months later. Also realize that at the time sazed hadn't yet undergone the personality warping cuased by the shards intent, so he still was fully himself. and he wouldn't have abandoned the southerners.

So, any idea of what happened there?

Unless saze wanted kelsier to go there and take care of the south, but it seems far-fetched as an option

My idea on it is that Saz HAD TO change the northerners so they would even be able to survive on Scad for a few weeks, because in their condition at the end of HOA they would have certainly died off very very quickly. Much quicker than the non genetically altered Southerners. The southerners had already been screwed with enough, being forced to adapt to a world over a thousands years of constant heat, and rising temps thanks to the ash mounts (in the north, dont think there were any in the south, but not sure of it) trapping heat. My guess is that he sent Kel, because he didn't want to alter them at all, physically, to have to fit into this new world. Basically give a man a fish as opposed to teach a man to fish kind of deal. Edited February 10, 2016 by The Ninja Yodeler

[KidWayne he/him]

See a part of me thinks that there is more going on here.

Secret History spoilers:

When Kelsier leaves Leras to find the IRE, he eventually escapes the influence of Ruin & Preservation. The question here is, "Where are the IRE?" If they are off world, Sazed is kind of a jerk. However, if they are actually just hanging out in the sea where it boils in the Physical Realm (which is why there's no plant or animal life present in the Cognitive Realm), then...

... perhaps Sazed's power is centered on the northern continent of Scadrial and his vision of the Southerners is restricted.

[VirtuousTraveller he/him]

See a part of me thinks that there is more going on here.

Secret History spoilers:

When Kelsier leaves Leras to find the IRE, he eventually escapes the influence of Ruin & Preservation. The question here is, "Where are the IRE?" If they are off world, Sazed is kind of a jerk. However, if they are actually just hanging out in the sea where it boils in the Physical Realm (which is why there's no plant or animal life present in the Cognitive Realm), then...

... perhaps Sazed's power is centered on the northern continent of Scadrial and his vision of the Southerners is restricted.

 

My first post! =)

 

I find it hard to believe that Harmony would have no influence or awareness of the Southern Continent.  Holding a Shard seems to grant an awareness on a massive level.

 

In SH:

 

When Wax and Harmony are talking after Wax dies, the image they see of Scadrial enveloped by the Red Haze seems telling that Harmony is protecting the whole planet. It would be odd for him to only know of the Northern Continent while protecting the entire planet!

 

In SA:

 

Honor and Odium seem aware of the events occurring all over the planet, and even beyond the planet.

 

In Warbreaker and Elantris:

 

To me, I'm fascinated about how Endowment has influence beyond Idris and Hallandren. The planet is obviously larger than the map we get in the front of the Warbreaker (as is Sel - the 10th Anniversary maps in Elantris show an expanded world than we originally knew in the original book).

 

The Southern Continent dwellers seem almost alien to what we've seen so far on Scadrial.  Perhaps they all arrived from off world at some point?

[MagpieMaydin]

This has always bothered me too. i guess it boils down to that "faith" thing. The southerners were the "natural Scadrians" They were relatively untouched by the lord ruler an adapted naturally to the warming planet. Perhaps, even though Sazed radically changed their planet, he didn't feel right messing with them any further and decided that they would copw with the hardship. Which, technically from a gods-eye-view they did; Kelsier went and adapted their culture.

 

Sazed says he only interferes where it's REALLY needed; I guess their plight wasn't actually serious enough...? I still don't agree though since their plight was his fault.

Edited February 11, 2016 by MagpieMaydin

[KidWayne he/him]

My first post! =)

Congrats!

 

When Wax and Harmony are talking... the image they see of Scadrial... seems [to show that] Harmony is protecting the whole planet. It would be odd for him to only know of the Northern Continent while protecting the entire planet!

I actually had the same thought, I'm really grasping at straws here because (if you looked under my spoiler tag) you can see that my alternative is to conclude that Sazed is being a jerk to the Southerners. I like Sazed and don't want to think of him that way.

The only justifications I can come up with are [A] Sazed looked into the future before fixing/helping the Southerners and saw something that made him hold off, or [B] he is using the Southerners the same way that Rashek did: he's leaving them as a control group. It's a reach but, perhaps Sazed wanted to make sure that the comforts with which he blessed the Basin didn't corrupt the people, so he left the Southerners to struggle and survive on their own.

As an aside, I like MagpieMaydin's suggestion that perhaps Sazed didn't intervene because he knew that they were already taken care of... even if he "took care" of them in the way that a pair of holey pair of jeans is taken care of by patches made from brightly colored bandanas...

 

The Southern Continent dwellers seem almost alien to what we've seen so far on Scadrial.  Perhaps they all arrived from off world at some point?

Stormlight Archive (WoR) spoilers:

Interesting, Brandon has told us that the other mask wearing character we know - Iyatil - has three planets she's "from". He said, "she's living now on Roshar, but then she's from a different planet, but that's not the planet that her people are from."

Maybe you're on to something there.

Edited February 11, 2016 by KidWayne

[Angsos]

Maybe Sazed did to much preserving so he had to let the dice fall where they might

[king of nowhere]

i think most likely that harmony saw that kelsier was arriving, but it feels wrong when coupled with the fact (secret history spoiler, maybe I should have posted into that subforum)

that sazed apparently didn't want kelsier to figure out how to come back to life. maybe he was using reverse psycology, but it seems un-sazed-like.

.

Unless, of course, harmony had different plans for the south, but changed plans when he realized that kelsier was back and was going there. maybe marsh gave him a tip, too.

[Landis963 he/him]

i think most likely that harmony saw that kelsier was arriving, but it feels wrong when coupled with the fact (secret history spoiler, maybe I should have posted into that subforum)

that sazed apparently didn't want kelsier to figure out how to come back to life. maybe he was using reverse psycology, but it seems un-sazed-like.

.

Unless, of course, harmony had different plans for the south, but changed plans when he realized that kelsier was back and was going there. maybe marsh gave him a tip, too.

 

Secret History spoilers: 

I'm fairly certain that was Sazed trying to forestall the inevitable.  And when it eventually happened, I imagine that Sazed told Kel about the people in the southern hemisphere (whom Marsh had been investigating just in case), and he took to that particular mission with gusto.  

[emailanimal he/him]

The way I've been reconciling this to myself so far has been to assume that during his initial ascension Sazed, perhaps out of ignorance of their existence, overlooked the southerners and once he became aware of them and their plight he determined that adapting their environment in any meaningful way would necessarily cause some sort of climatic disruption to the paradise he built in the Basin.

 

 

I lean towards a similar explanation, rather than the idea that Sazed set up Southern continent to suffer for 10 years because he had this great foresight of the future and wanted KElsier to go there....

 

I think that taking two Shards and the immediate aftermath of it gave Sazed a sort of PTSD, or at least, put him under a lot of stress.  He has suddenly gotten an info dump of Cosmeric proportions, he had to use his powers to undo Rashek's patches, and then he had to deal with Keliser not being dead, and Vin and Elend - actually being dead.  

 

He may have lost the opportunity to fix things on South Pole via an act of Shard Awesomeness. 

 

Why it took someone ten years to actually start paying attention - I do not know. Hope Brandon reveals it at some point.  I take it, we are, by far, not done with Sazed.

 

I also predict a certain degree of South Polers becoming really pissed when they learn the history of the North Pole.

[DeadFencer]

I just assumed Sazed didn't want to change the southerners, since they were the only unaltered Scadrialians. He instead sent the One-Eye Spike Man to help them out. Maybe it took a while to plan what to do, then actually get all the way down there.