vineyarddawg Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 This is probably a dumb question... but what was the spoiler for Bands of Mourning in Secret History? Was it just because the book gives us far more evidence to support that fact that the "Southern Lord Ruler" is actually Kelsier (since we know from the Epilogue that he was getting Spook to help him find a way to come back into the Physical Realm)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yurisses Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) I think it is because you aren't meant to notice the Kelsier foreshadowing until the final reveal. You're meant to assume for the entire book that the Sovereign is TLR, and when the reveal comes only then do you realise there were big hints. Edited February 8, 2016 by yurisses 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner he/him Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 In Secret History, we definitively see Rashek move Beyond - that's what I thought the actual spoiler was. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vineyarddawg Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Ah, I see now. Thanks, Pagerunner and yurisses. I thought it was kind of hilarious in a way when Rashek just basically said, "screw you guys, I'm outta here" and blinked off without much pomp or fanfare at all. Not sure if it was meant to be funny, but I did chuckle to myself when I read that. EDIT: I would upvote you guys for providing helpful answers, but I'm a serial upvoter, apparently, and have already used up all my quota for the day! Edited February 8, 2016 by vineyarddawg 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Did it for you But yes, for the vast majority of BoM I was left wondering how on earth TLR could be alive, given we watched him virtually turn into old dust onscreen. Secret History makes it 100% clear that guy died when we thought he did, and makes it very clear who the real Sovereign was. (not that there were many candidates to begin with) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vineyarddawg Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Did it for you Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 On that note (sorry for tangent), I find it interesting that TLR isn't described as old in the Cognitive realm. Kelsier recognized the guy same as always. Perhaps that is how he perceived himself (unaging) and that is why his feruchemical gold healing doesn't return him to his super old state probably described by his spiritual aspect? Self perception influences healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabidhexley Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 On that note (sorry for tangent), I find it interesting that TLR isn't described as old in the Cognitive realm. Kelsier recognized the guy same as always. Perhaps that is how he perceived himself (unaging) and that is why his feruchemical gold healing doesn't return him to his super old state probably described by his spiritual aspect? Self perception influences healing. As far as his appearance in the cognitive realm, it makes the most sense for him to appear as "The Lord Ruler" appeared, as that was who he was to himself and everyone around him. He was conceptually and for the most part literally eternal, so it wouldn't make sense for him to appear as an old man in the cognitive realm, where things appear as their conceptualized selves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I understand the reasoning, but until now we've been wondering, if atium feruchemy doesn't affect spiritual age, why his gold feruchemy doesn't heal him into an old person. Cognitive perception was my primary suspicion, but now we know for sure that his self-perception does indeed have severe discrepancies with his "true" self that will affect his healing. Edited February 9, 2016 by natc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jk82672 Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 This section in BoM peaked my interest when I read it. “There are four individuals,” VenDell said, “who, to our knowledge, have held the power of Ascension. Rashek, the Survivor, the Ascendant Warrior, and Lord Harmony Himself. This is the first time Kelsier is mentioned holding the Power of Ascension. Didn't make sense until I read Secret Origin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze1616 he/him Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Aside from TLR actually being 100% deceased, Secret Histories also brielfy mentioned Southern Scadrians in passing. This section in BoM peaked my interest when I read it.“There are four individuals,” VenDell said, “who, to our knowledge, have held the power of Ascension. Rashek, the Survivor, the Ascendant Warrior, and Lord Harmony Himself.This is the first time Kelsier is mentioned holding the Power of Ascension. Didn't make sense until I read Secret Origin The fandom has known Kelsier was a Sliver for a very long time. That was the first time Brandon actually said it in a published work, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara she/her Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Shouldn't that be 5 people? Leras held the Shard the longest so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer he/him Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Does that mean the Kandra don't know about Leras? That doesn't make much sense... Possibly a continuity error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaSeeker he/him Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Perhaps the Kandra do not consider the original holder to have "ascended". Leras got his power from the Shattering, which the kandra may or may not know about. The other 4 were mortals born on Scadrial, who took up the mantle. Edited February 9, 2016 by NovaSeeker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabidhexley Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Shouldn't that be 5 people? Leras held the Shard the longest so far They didn't mention Ati either. They're likely just talking about people they're aware of that actually took up Shards on Scadrial. They wouldn't know anything about Leras or Ati other than that they were the original shardholders. Edited February 10, 2016 by rabidhexley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluminum Rocket Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Aside from TLR actually being 100% deceased, Secret Histories also brielfy mentioned Southern Scadrians in passing. The fandom has known Kelsier was a Sliver for a very long time. That was the first time Brandon actually said it in a published work, I think. Created an account just for this. I reread Shadows of Self yesterday and came across a discussion Marasi has in the tail end of the book. There is talk of how Kelsier, the Survivor, was spoken of as having Ascended "by Harmony himself" in the Words of Founding. Essentially, in one throwaway line, Brandon told us last year that not only was Kelsier still kicking after death -- he actually held the power of a shard. I already returned the ebook so I don't have the exact passage handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 Well, he does have spoken lines in HoA that are definitely not Ruin, so anybody paying enough attention would have suspected him of still being around by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmium he/him Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Shouldn't that be 5 people? Leras held the Shard the longest so far. They didn't mention Ati either. They're likely just talking about people they're aware of that actually took up Shards on Scadrial. They wouldn't know anything about Leras or Ati other than that they were the original shardholders. Super Aluminum hat wearer might think this suggests that Leras wasn't a person... #dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Super Aluminum hat wearer might think this suggests that Leras wasn't a person... #dragon Seems unlikely given how Brandon defines person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadmium he/him Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Seems unlikely given how Brandon defines person. Was joke. I keed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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